Is Jesus Christ (Michael the Archangel)?

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  • TruthTruth Posts: 521
    edited November 2021

    Both passages are fully true and mean entirely different things--a fact which I think you know, even if you are required to speak the Watchtower line. There is no conflict.

    Even if you were right (which contradicts Heb 5:5) that still leaves you with polytheism and worshipping an angel--both expressly forbidden.

    Repeatedly, you will not address this blasphemous worship and polygamy because even your unholy Watchtower has no answer for it.

    You are treed with no place to go but scrambling back to your Popes at the Watchtower. Accept the Bible for what it says without distortion and it all snaps crisply into place. Try it.

  • BroRandoBroRando Posts: 637
    edited November 2021

    Jehovah Witnesses worship the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ in spirit and truth. When we approach Jehovah in prayer, we ask these things to be done in your sons name. Jesus Christ. Amen.


    Jesus stated to the samaritan woman, "God is a Spirit, and those worshipping him MUST worship with spirit and truth." (John 4:24)

    Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him. (John 4:23)

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  • TruthTruth Posts: 521

    So you do not worship Jesus?

    Those in the Bible who worshipped Jesus were wrong?

  • BroRandoBroRando Posts: 637

    Only the God and Father is to be worshipped as Jesus explain to Satan. In reply Jesus said to him: “It is written, ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’” (Luke 4:8)


    Exodus 20:3

     You must not have any other gods besides me.

    Deuteronomy 6:13

     Jehovah your God you should fear, and him you should serve, and by his name you should swear.

    Deuteronomy 10:20

    “Jehovah your God you should fear, him you should serve, to him you should cling, and by his name you should swear.

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  • TruthTruth Posts: 521
    edited November 2021

    So those in the Bible who worshipped Jesus were wrong, even though Jesus accepted their worship?


    The New Testament reveals Jesus receiving worship on many occasions. Each time, Jesus accepted the worship.

    Matthew 8:2 notes a healed leper who worshipped Jesus. Later, a ruler knelt before Jesus after He had healed his Son. Matthew 9:18 states, "A ruler came in and knelt before him."

    The disciples worshipped Jesus after He walked on water. Matthew 14:33 shares, "Those in the boat worshipped him, saying, 'Truly you are the Son of God.'"

    A Canaanite woman worshipped Jesus. Matthew 15:25 notes, "she came and knelt before him, saying, 'Lord, help me.'" The mother of James and John also knelt in worship before Jesus. Matthew 20:20 shares, "Then the mother of the sons of Zebedee came up to him with her sons, and kneeling before him she asked him for something."

    Mark 5:6 describes a man worshiping Jesus who was tormented by evil spirits. We read, "when he saw Jesus from afar, he ran and fell down before him."

    A healed blind man worshipped Jesus. John 9:38 states, "He said, 'Lord, I believe,' and he worshipped him."

    Matthew 28:17 notes an occasion after the resurrection of Jesus when all of the disciples worshipped Jesus. We are told, "when they saw him they worshipped him."

    Thomas worshipped Jesus when he saw Him alive again. John 20:28 teaches that Thomas responded, "My Lord and my God!"

    There are many occasions when the names attributed to Jesus indicate that others believed Jesus was divine. John 1:1, 20:28, Philippians 2:5-8, Colossians 2:9, Hebrews 1:3, and other passages refer to Jesus as Lord, revering Him in worship.

    Some argue that the occasions that involve bowing before Jesus were not acts of worship, but Revelation 22:8-9 shows that in New Testament times, bowing before someone was considered an act of worship. John wrote, "I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed them to me, but he said to me, 'You must not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brothers the prophets, and with those who keep the words of this book. Worship God.'"

  • BroRandoBroRando Posts: 637

    Jesus was never worshipped or asked to be worshipped. https://christiandiscourse.net/discussion/977/is-jesus-god/p1

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  • TruthTruth Posts: 521
    edited November 2021

    So you reject all the Bible passages listed above?

  • So you do not worship Jesus?

    I worship Jesus as Messiah ...

    Those in the Bible who worshipped Jesus were wrong?

    No ... because NO ONE in the Bible worshiped Jesus as their God ... Jesus was worshiped as king (by the magi, Mt 2) and by his disciples as their master and teacher ...

  • TruthTruth Posts: 521

    Oh....so for you, worship doesn't mean worship. Or sometimes it does or sometimes it doesn't. Or it means different things different times.

    Quite the hermeneutical gymnastics! It would take a Watchtower to come up with that.


    This matters because you are missing out on so much of the riches of truth. Perhaps even salvation.

  • BroRandoBroRando Posts: 637

    Did Joshua really worship the angel before him? We both know that angel worship is forbidden.

    Young's Literal Translation

    And He saith, 'No, for I am Prince of Jehovah's host; now I have come;' and Joshua falleth on his face to the earth, and doth obeisance, and saith to Him, 'What is my Lord speaking unto His servant?'

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  • TruthTruth Posts: 521
    edited November 2021

    Your passage about Joshua is not relevant because nothing is said about worship, only obeisance. If I encountered an angel, I might fall on my face too, but not in worship. Some passages I listed mention worship and all refer to Jesus.

  • Oh....so for you, worship doesn't mean worship.

    4686 προσκυνέω (proskyneō): vb.; ≡ DBLHebr 2556, 6032; DBLAram 10504; Str 4352; TDNT 6.758—1. LN 53.56 worship, bow as an act of allegiance or regard (Mt 2:2); 2. LN 17.21 prostrate oneself before, kneel down before as an act of reverence (Rev 3:9)

    (Swanson, J. (1997). Dictionary of Biblical Languages with Semantic Domains: Greek (New Testament) (electronic ed.). Oak Harbor: Logos Research Systems, Inc.)

    Context matters ... just not for you?! Your pre-conceived ideas are your measure and glasses through which you read.

  • BroRandoBroRando Posts: 637
    edited November 2021

    Correct but notice other translations. Since we know Josuha wa a faithful servant of Jehovah, we know that he would not worship an angel even though other bibles make that false claim.

    English Standard Version

    And he said, “No; but I am the commander of the army of the LORD. Now I have come.” And Joshua fell on his face to the earth and worshiped and said to him, “What does my lord say to his servant?”

    King James Bible

    And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant?

    American Standard Version

    And he said, Nay; but as prince of the host of Jehovah am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant?

    What does the LEB say? Joshua 5:14

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  • TruthTruth Posts: 521

    Well, if you are going to go down that road you have yourself in a terrible fix. What about all the people who bowed down to Jesus, that Jesus accepted--all were wrong?

    Either that or your worship of God is really anemic, if all you do is kneel down and nothing more happens.

    @Wolfgang I really think you know better than that. Worship means worship and we all know what worship means. It may sometimes include bowing down too, but the bowing isn't the worship--good grief, kids bow in grammar school plays.

  • BroRandoBroRando Posts: 637
    edited November 2021

    The angel is called Prince of Jehovah Host or Arny. And he has a sword. Who do you think angel is?? Look closely, he's a Prince. Does Daniel 12:1 or Isaiah 9:6 come to mind? Notice something else, he said the same thing to Moses... (Exodus 3:2)

    Joshua 5:13 And it cometh to pass in Joshua’s being by Jericho, that he lifteth up his eyes, and looketh, and lo, one standing over-against him, and his drawn sword in his hand, and Joshua goeth unto him, and saith to him, ‘Art thou for us or for our adversaries?’ 

    14 And He saith, ‘No, for I [am] Prince of Jehovah’s host; now I have come;’ and Joshua falleth on his face to the earth, and doth obeisance, and saith to Him, ‘What is my Lord speaking unto His servant?’ 

    15 And the Prince of Jehovah’s host saith unto Joshua, ‘Cast off thy shoe from off thy foot, for the place on which thou art standing is holy;’ and Joshua doth so;

    Exodus 3: 5 And He saith, ‘Come not near hither: cast thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place on which thou art standing is holy ground.’

    This angel or messenger is God's Word aka (Michael) who speak in behalf of Jehovah. The one that inherited the Name. (Philippians 2:9-11 and Hebrews 1:4) Angels/sons are often called by the NAME they represent, such as Jehovah. If angels are sons then what does that make Jesus? (Matthew 16:16 and Revelation 22:16).

    If you worship Jesus as the Son of God, then you are worshippinh angel. Jesus as God's Chief Messanger always tends to have a swodrd amd fire around him. WHY? Because he destroys those who refuses to obey him. Read (1 Corinthians 10:1-10) ESPECIALLY 1 Corinthians 10:10

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  • TruthTruth Posts: 521
    edited November 2021

    You may be confusing "son" biologically and relationally. The man Jesus is the son of God relationally. So are angels, but in a very different sort of relationship. So are men described as "sons of God", but in a whole different relationship yet. All may be relationally "sons of God," but that does not make men angels. It does not make the man Jesus an angel. It simply states a relationship.

    That all angels are sons of God does not mean that all sons of God are angels.

    Jesus is a Son of God, but that does not make Him an angel.


    *Please note that the ESV translators foot note says worship = "and paid homage"


    I think we know the difference from context when one man falls before an angel on his face in terror and it is called "worship," and when a man cries out, "My Lord and My God" when he realizes that the person he has encountered is God. When a man is healed of leprosy and is smitten with knowledge that only God could do such a thing and falls to the ground and worships--we needn't confuse that with what Joshua did when he probably didn't know what he was encountering, but it was scary. Sure, the English word "worship" is used, but we know the difference.


    I am thinking you may be seeing light.

  • BroRandoBroRando Posts: 637
    edited November 2021

    True... God is light but not all light is God. Jesus being the light of the world does not make him God. After this I saw another angel descending from heaven with Great Authority, and the earth was illuminated by his Glory. (Rev 18:1)

    Post edited by BroRando on

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  • Well, if you are going to go down that road you have yourself in a terrible fix. What about all the people who bowed down to Jesus, that Jesus accepted--all were wrong?

    No fix at my side ... and, those people were NOT wrong! YOU are the one wrongly understanding the text.

    Either that or your worship of God is really anemic, if all you do is kneel down and nothing more happens.

    Again, you must get off track .... why? Read the text, observe the context ... and leave your theological blinders in the trash bin.

    @Wolfgang I really think you know better than that.

    I seem to know a lot better than you think ... as your comments show.

    Worship means worship and we all know what worship means. It may sometimes include bowing down too, but the bowing isn't the worship--good grief, kids bow in grammar school plays.

    See above ... you are hung up on the translation "worship" and what that word means ... and you are ignorant and reject what the original language word means in different contexts. Had translators done their job better, the word "worship" in the sole sense of "revere, as God bow down to God" would not even have been used in those places where the context is not about "worship as God" but "show reference to someone as teacher, master, king, etc."

    Believe what you want to believe ... YOU will answer to the judge one day for what you believe (as is the case for all).

  • TruthTruth Posts: 521

    I am not worried about the Judge. He is righteous. I just long for you to enjoy a full marriage banquet with Jesus when you are sitting in the ditch eating spoiled tofu.

  • BroRandoBroRando Posts: 637
    edited November 2021

    That was a goodexplanation. There is nothing wrong giving Christ his due in the form of Respect and Submission. As the Word of God, he does have the last say. "For the Father judges no one at all, but he has entrusted all the judging to the Son," (John 5:22) I think @Truth worships Jesus as 'God the Son" as well as other trinitarians who worship what they do not know. (John 4:22-24)


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  • TruthTruth Posts: 521

    @BroRando @Wolfgang

    Jn 14:8-10

    Philip (like you) could not grasp that the man Jesus was God, so he asked:

     Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

     Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

    Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

    Then, Philip understood. Doubting Thamas took a little longer to get it, but he finally did. You could be next.

  • BroRandoBroRando Posts: 637
    edited November 2021

    Jesus is not God. "For the Father judges no one at all, but he has entrusted all the judging to the Son," (John 5:22) After this I saw another angel descending from heaven with Great Authority, and the earth was illuminated by his Glory. (Rev 18:1)

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  • TruthTruth Posts: 521

    I understand Jesus is not your God. One day He absolutely will be. You too will bow before Him and cry out, Lord and God!

    I hope that by then you will be able to say with Thomas, "My Lord," and "My God."

    Before it is too late.

  • BroRandoBroRando Posts: 637

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  • TruthTruth Posts: 521

    Right, Thomas beheld Jesus, understood who Jesus was, and worshipped Jesus--there is only one whom we are to worship and that one is God.

  • BroRandoBroRando Posts: 637
    edited November 2021

    Thomas never worshipped Jesus. Anyways you claimed the three disctinct persons was Jehovah. I think you are far removed from the one true God.

    Isaiah 45:18

    For this is what Jehovah says, The Creator of the heavens, the true God, The One who formed the earth, its Maker who firmly established it, Who did not create it simply for nothing, but formed it to be inhabited: “I am Jehovah, and there is no one else."

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  • TruthTruth Posts: 521
    edited November 2021

    Thomas never worshipped Jesus. Anyways you claimed the three disctinct persons was Jehovah. I think you are far removed from the one true God.

    Right. The point in that passage isn't worship, it is that Thomas addressed Jesus as God"

    There is only one God. Some people talk about three distinct persons because we attempt to explain a magnificent being that defies easy description. The solution to that problem is not to bring deity down to our feeble descriptions, but to worship Him,

    Nevertheless, here is an analogy:

    Analogies always break down because they are not the real thing, but let me try (borrowed from somewhere):

    Light is comprised of the three primary colors: red, yellow, and blue. Each color is separate, but when blended together they make “white light” or daylight, and they function as one. Similarly, each person of the Trinity is a separate and distinct person, but together they constitute the Trinity and function as One.

  • BroRandoBroRando Posts: 637

    Thomas never acclaimed 'Jesus is God'. Why not read the Greek to find out what he was saying?

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  • @BroRando November 19 Thomas never acclaimed 'Jesus is God'. Why not read the Greek to find out what he was saying?

    Curious about your translation of John 20:28 from Koine Greek into English.

    John 20:24-29 LEB (with Hebrew words for Jewish usual translation of יהוה as Lord & אלהים as God in LXX) => Now Thomas, one of the twelve, who was called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. So the other disciples said to him, “We have seen the יהוה Lord!” But he said to them, “Unless I see in his hands the mark of the nails, and put my finger into the mark of the nails, and put my hand into his side, I will never believe!” And after eight days his disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Although the doors had been shut, Jesus came and stood in their midst and said, “Peace to you.” Then he said to Thomas, “Place your finger here and see my hands, and place your hand and put it into my side. And do not be unbelieving, but believing!” Thomas answered and said to him, “My יהוה Lord and my אלהים God!” Jesus said to him, “Because you have seen me, have you believed? Blessed are those who have not seen and have believed.”

    John 20:28 SBLGNT => ἀπεκρίθη Θωμᾶς καὶ εἶπεν αὐτῷ· Ὁ κύριός μου καὶ ὁ θεός μου.

    ἀπεκρίθη - to answer, to reply - verb, aorist, middle/passive, indicative, 3rd person (action happened)

    Θωμᾶς - Thomas - noun, nominative, singular, masculine

    καὶ - and - conjuction, logical connective

    εἶπεν - to say - verb, present, active, indicative (continuous action in present time)

    αὐτῷ· - to him - pronoun, personal, 3rd person, dative, singular, masculine (dative can be: locative, instrumental, dative - recipient of action)

    Ὁ - The - article, nominative, singular, masculine

    κύριός - Lord - noun, nominative, singular, masculine

    μου - of me - pronoun, personal, 1st person, genitive, singular (genitive can be: possessive "of me" OR ablative "from me")

    καὶ - and - conjuction, logical connective

    ὁ - The - article, nominative, singular, masculine

    θεός - God - noun, nominative, singular, masculine

    μου. - of me - pronoun, personal, 1st person, genitive, singular (genitive can be possession "of me" OR ablative "from me")

    replied Thomas and saying to him: "The יהוה Lord of me and The אלהים God of me."

    (John 20:28 my translation with Hebrew words for Jewish usual translation of יהוה as Lord & אלהים as God in LXX)



    What thoughts about three names in Deuteronomy 6:4 יהוה אלהינו יהוה  (We => אלהים has 1st person plural pronoun suffix) ?

    Two יהוה names are in Jeremiah 23:5-6 LEB => “Look, days are coming,” declares יהוה Yahweh, “when I will raise up for David a righteous branch, and he will reign as king, and he will achieve success, and he will do justice and righteousness in the land. In his days Judah will be saved, and Israel will dwell in safety, and this is his name by which he will be called: ‘יהוה Yahweh is our righteousness.’

    Hebrew word צדקנו righteousness has 1st person plural pronoun suffix so his name could be translated => 'יהוה Yahweh Righteousness We'



    How many subject(s) are saying in Isaiah 44:6 ? How many יהוה ?

    Isaiah 44:6-7 LEB => Thus says יהוה Yahweh, the king of Israel, and its redeemer, יהוה Yahweh of hosts: “I am the first, and I am the last, and there is no god besides me. And who is like me? Let him proclaim it! And let him declare it and set it in order for me since I established an eternal people and things that are to come, and let them tell them the things that are coming.

    How truthful are the words Jesus spoke in Revelation 22:13 ?

    Revelation 22:12-16 LEB => “Behold, I am coming quickly, and my reward is with me, to repay each one according to what his deeds are! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.” Blessed are the ones who wash their robes, so that their authority will be over the tree of life and they may enter into the city through the gates. Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the sexually immoral people and the murderers and the idolaters and everyone who loves and who practices falsehood. “I, Jesus, sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.”

    Who is Jesus that has "my angel" to send ?



    Did the Apostle Paul describe Jesus incorrectly in Philippians 2:5-11, especially existing in the form of plural אלהים God ?

    Philippians 2:5-11 LEB (with Hebrew words for Jewish usual translation of יהוה as Lord & אלהים as God in LXX) => Think this in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, existing in the form of אלהים God, did not consider being equal with אלהים God something to be grasped, but emptied himself by taking the form of a slave, by becoming in the likeness of people. And being found in appearance like a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, that is, death on a cross. Therefore also אלהים God exalted him and graciously granted him the name above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven and of those on earth and of those under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is יהוה Lord, to the glory of אלהים God the Father.



    When the physical realm did not exist, how could Jesus experience אלהים God's Glory (John 17:5) and אלהים God's Love (John 17:24) ?

    FWIW: three names in Deuteronomy 6:4 יהוה אלהינו יהוה (We => אלהים has 1st person plural pronoun suffix) shows completeness of unique God.



    Was Jewish Rabbi Jesus incorrect to command disciples of Jesus to be ye believing in me (Jesus) the same as be ye believing in God ?

    πιστεύετε εἰς τὸν θεόν, καὶ εἰς ἐμὲ πιστεύετε (John 14:1 SBLGNT words spoken by Jesus to disciples)

    πιστεύετε - to believe - verb, present, active, indicative, 2nd person, plural "Be ye believing" (present = continuous action in present time)

    εἰς - in - preposition

    τὸν - the - article, accusative, singular, masculine (accusative case shows object of preposition εἰς)

    θεόν, - God - noun, accusative, singular, masculine (grammatical case, number, gender agrees with article)

    καὶ - also - adverb/particle, emphatic

    εἰς - in - preposition

    ἐμὲ - me - pronoun, personal, 1st person, accusative, singular (accusative case shows object of preposition εἰς)

    πιστεύετε - to believe: verb, present, active, indicative, 2nd person, plural "Be ye believing" (present = continuous action in present time)

    Be ye believing in the אלהים God, also in me Be ye believing (John 14:1 my translation with Hebrew word for Jewish usual translation of אלהים as God in LXX). FYI: "ye" is olde English plural form of you, which was in the Bishop's Bible and kept by Authorized Version translators.



    @BroRando November 19 The angel is called Prince of Jehovah Host or Arny.

    Joshua 5:13-15 LEB => And it happened, when Joshua was by Jericho, he looked up, and he saw a man standing opposite him with his sword drawn in his hand. And Joshua went to him and said, “Are you with us, or with our adversaries?” And he said, “Neither. I have come now as the שַׂר commander of יהוה Yahweh’s army.” And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and he bowed down and said to him, “What is my אדני lord commanding his servant?” The שַׂר commander of יהוה Yahweh’s army said to Joshua, “Take off your sandals from your feet, for the place where you are standing is holy.” And Joshua did so.

    Joshua addressed the commander of יהוה Yahweh’s army as a-do-NAI אדני Lord.

    Hebrew range of שַׂר word meaning for commander includes prince, which was used to describe the archangel Michael in Daniel 10:21

    COMMANDER 

    sar (שַׂר, 8269), “official; leader; commander; captain; chief; prince; ruler.” This word, which has an Akkadian cognate, appears about 420 times in biblical Hebrew. The word is often applied to certain non-lsraelite “officials or representatives of the king.” This meaning appears in Gen. 12:15, its first biblical appearance: “The princes also of Pharaoh saw her [Sarah], and commended her before Pharaoh.…” In other contexts sar represents “men who clearly have responsibility over others”; they are “rulers or chieftains.” Sar may mean simply a “leader” of a profession, a group, or a district, as Phichol was the “commander” of Abimelech’s army (Gen. 21:22) and Potiphar was “an officer of Pharaoh’s and captain of the [body]guard” (Gen. 37:36). In such usage, “chief” means “head official” (cf. Gen. 40:2). Sarim (plural) were “honored men” (Isa. 23:8).

    Sar is used of certain “notable men” within Israel. When Abner was killed by Joab, David said to his servants (palace officials), “Know ye not that there is a prince and a great man fallen this day in Israel?” (2 Sam. 3:38; cf. Num. 21:18). Joab, Abishai, and Ittai were “commanders” in David’s army (cf. 2 Sam. 23:19). “Local leaders in Israel” are also called sarim: “And the princes of Succoth said …” (Judg. 8:6).

    In several passages, sar refers to the task of “ruling.” Moses tried to break up a fight between two Hebrews and one of them asked him, “Who made thee a prince and a judge over us?” (Exod. 2:14). In such a context, sar means “leader,” “ruler,” and “judge”: “Moreover thou shalt provide out of all the people able men, such as fear God, men of truth, hating covetousness; and place such over them, to be rulers of thousands, and rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens …” (Exod. 18:21). The “commander” of Israel’s army was called a sar (1 Sam. 17:55).

    In Judg. 9:30, sar represents a “ruler” of a city. Any government official might be called a sar (Neh. 3:14). “Religious officiants” who served in the temple of God were also called sarim (Jer. 35:4).

    The “leaders” or “chiefs” of the Levites (1 Chron. 15:16) or priests (Ezra 8:24) are sarim. In 1 Chron. 24:5, the word appears to be a title: “Thus were they divided by lot, one sort with another; for the governors of the sanctuary [sarim qodes] and governors of the house of God [sarim ha˒elohim], were of the sons of Eleazar and of the sons of Ithamar” (nasb, “officers of the sanctuary” and “officers of God”).

    In the Book of Daniel, sar is used of “superhuman beings” or “patron angels.” Thus, Michael is the “prince” of Judah (Dan. 10:21; cf. Josh. 5:14). Daniel 8:25 speaks of a king who will arise and “stand up against the Prince of princes” (i.e., the Messiah).

     W. E. Vine, Merrill F. Unger, and William White Jr., Vine’s Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words (Nashville, TN: T. Nelson, 1996), 41–42.

    Daniel 10:13 describes Michael as one of the chief princes in LEB, one of the commanders of the first order in Greek Septuagint. NWT describes Mi'cha-el as one of the foremost princes.


    The Old Testament in Greek according to the Septuagint (LXX) by Henry Barclay Swete includes the Jewish apocryphal book of Enoch. Lexham English Septuagint (LES) translates LXX Swete (diplomatic edition has Codex Vaticanus text supplemented by other manuscripts & an apparatus).

    Enoch 20:1-7 LES => These are the angels of powers: Uriel, one of the holy angels, who is over the world and the netherworld; Raphael, one of the holy angels, who is over the spirits of men; Raguel, one of the holy angels, who avenges the world of luminaries; Michael, one of the holy angels, who was appointed over the good ones of the people and over the chaos; Sariel, one of the holy angels, who is over the spirits who sin in the spirit; Gabriel, one of the holy angels, who is over paradise and the dragons and Cherubim. These are the seven names of the archangels.These are the angels of powers: Uriel, one of the holy angels, who is over the world and the netherworld; Raphael, one of the holy angels, who is over the spirits of men; Raguel, one of the holy angels, who avenges the world of luminaries; Michael, one of the holy angels, who was appointed over the good ones of the people and over the chaos; Sariel, one of the holy angels, who is over the spirits who sin in the spirit; Gabriel, one of the holy angels, who is over paradise and the dragons and Cherubim. These are the seven * names of the archangels.

    * The Greek has “seven” though only six names are listed. The seventh name is Remiel, attested here in some versions (see previous note).

     Brannan, R., Penner, K. M., Loken, I., Aubrey, M., & Hoogendyk, I., eds. (2012). The Lexham English Septuagint. Lexham Press.


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  • The point in that passage isn't worship, it is that Thomas addressed Jesus as God"

    What Bible are you and others reading?? None (!!) of the Bibles (Greek NT and English, German, French & Spanish translations) has anything about Thomas addressing Jesus with his exclamation.

    But then, follow your theological trinitarian fantasies .... it's your privilege! Please note: Those who actually read the Bible text do have an advantage.

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