Is Jesus Christ (Michael the Archangel)?

The Book of Daniel is the angel Gabriel’s witness to Daniel about God’s Kingdom. Gabriel gives details about God’s Kingdom, what that Kingdom will do for mankind, and he witnesses about the coming Messiah and identifies to Daniel who the Ruler of God’s Kingdom would be.

In the final Chapter of Daniel, Gabriel gives detailed information about the Ruler of God’s kingdom that would mark the End of the Gentile times.  At that time, “the appointed times of the nations” ended, and Jesus Christ was installed as God’s heavenly King. *​—Psalm 2:1-6; Daniel 7:13, 14. The prophecy is detailed to Daniel in the following scripture from Gabriel. “During that time Miʹcha·el will stand up, the great prince who is standing in behalf of your people. And there will occur a time of distress such as has not occurred since there came to be a nation until that time. And during that time your people will escape, everyone who is found written down in the book.” (Daniel 12:1)

Yes in 1914, Michael the Great Prince stands up to begin Ruling as King of God’s Kingdom. Michael is the Mighty God in Isaiah 9:6, the Prince of Peace, the Angel of Great Counsel who is Wisdom in Proverbs 8. Michael is the one Philippians spoken of has being given the Name. “Keep this mental attitude in you that was also in Christ Jesus, who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God. No, but he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and became human. More than that, when he came as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death, yes, death on a torture stake” (Philippians 2:5-8)

For this very reason, God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name, so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend—of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground— and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father. (Philippians 2:9-11)

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  • Jerusalem was encompassed by armies and trampled down by Gentiles, nations, at the end of the OT Age when Rome and its vassals besiegd and eventually destroyed city and temple. This event is the only one that fits with Jesus' words to his disciples in his so-called end time discourse (cp. Lk 21).

    Ideas about events in 1914 AD having something to do with Biblical prophecy are fantasy, misinterpret the biblical text in order to propagate a certain theology developed by its propagators.

    Simple and plain Bible truth ....

  • @Wolfgang June 13 Jerusalem was encompassed by armies and trampled down by Gentiles, nations, at the end of the OT Age when Rome and its vassals besiegd and eventually destroyed city and temple. This event is the only one that fits with Jesus' words to his disciples in his so-called end time discourse (cp. Lk 21).

    Since the destruction of the Second Temple by Rome, regular burnt offerings have not happened. Thus closing of Daniel 12 has yet to happen:

    Now I myself heard, but I did not understand, and I said, “My lord, what will be the outcome of these things?” And he said, “Go, Daniel, for the words are secret and are sealed up until the time of the end. Many will be purified and will be cleansed and will be refined, but the wicked will act wickedly and none of the wicked will understand, but those who have insight will understand. And from the time the regular burnt offering is removed and the abomination that causes desolation is set up there will be one thousand two hundred and ninety days. Happy is the one who is persevering, and attains to the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days. But you, go on to the end and rest, and you will arise for your allotted inheritance at the end of the days.” (Daniel 12:8-13 LEB)

    At this point, humanly am praying 🙏for God's insight with perfect timing (currently these secrets of God are a mystery). To me, a physical sign for the time of the end would be the Third Temple in Jerusalem with regular burnt offerings being done by Jewish Levitical priests.

    Luke 21:25-28 Son of Man arrival has more details in Zechariah 14 apocalyptic vision: e.g. Mount of Olives splitting



    @BroRando June 12  Yes in 1914, Michael the Great Prince stands up to begin Ruling as King of God’s Kingdom. ...

    Revelation 22:8-11 describes Angel response to human worship with command to Worship God! (consistent with Exodus 20:3-6)

    “And behold, I am coming quickly! Blessed is the one who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book.” And I, John, am the one who heard and who saw these things. And when I heard and saw them, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel who showed these things to me. And he said to me, “Do not do that! I am your fellow slave, and of your brothers the prophets, and of those who keep the words of this book. Worship God!” And he said to me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near! The one who does evil, let him do evil still, and the defiled, let him be defiled still, and the righteous, let him practice righteousness still, and the holy, let him be holy still.” (Revelation 22:8-11 LEB)

    In contrast, the Jewish Rabbi Jesus received worship as יהוה Lord: e.g. John 20:24-29 "My Lord and My God"

    Biblical text simply says Jesus and Angel Michael are clearly distinct, separate.



    Keep Smiling 😊

  • BroRandoBroRando Posts: 496
    edited November 18

    Then Joshua said to the people: “You are not able to serve Jehovah, for he is a holy God; he is a God who requires exclusive devotion. He will not pardon your transgressions and your sins." (Joshua 24:19)

    I am sending an angel ahead of you to guard you on the Way and to bring you into the place that I have prepared. Pay attention to him, and obey his voice. Do not rebel against him, for he will not pardon your transgressions, because my name is in him. (Exodus 23:20)

    Honor the son, or God will become indignant And you will perish from the Way, For His anger flares up quickly. Happy are all those taking refuge in Him. (Pslams 2:12)

    Meaning of John 14:6 A person who wants to worship the Father, Jehovah God, must recognize Jesus’ vital role.

    An expression used figuratively in the Scriptures to refer to a mode of action or conduct that is either approved or disapproved by Jehovah. Those who became followers of Jesus Christ were spoken of as belonging to “The Way,” that is, they kept a way of life centered on faith in Jesus Christ, following his example.​—Ac 19:9. https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/bible-glossary/the-way/

    Today, there are more than 8.6 million followers of Jesus Christ who worship his Father with truth and spirit. (John 4:24)

    These true worshipers of the Way, have been on the earth for almost 2,000 years ever since Jesus stated to the Samaritan woman, " Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him." (John 4:23) AS the second day ends, a Better World is Near.


  • TruthTruth Posts: 421

        If you were to ask, “Do you know you have eternal life?”

        —a Jehovah’s Witness would say, “No one can know that for sure!”

        Yet, 1 John 5:13 says, “I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.”

        The most significant word in sharing with a Witness is peace—the peace you have because you know your salvation is secure. The power of your peace can draw a Witness to the Prince of Peace, the living Lord Jesus.

  • C McC Mc Posts: 4,341

    CD Readers,

    With harden minds and in tandem harden hearts, the saturating waters of truth can't penetrate or soften. "Like water on a duck's back," the softening agent of truth rolls right off. As evident in biblical teachings, I venture to share previous posts once again compiled for a snapshot of what some cannot see or refuse to accept. Necessity requires this when we don't stay on topic within a thread or threads containing more or less the same materials. For its weight in revelatory truth, see Jesus-God again through the eyes and work of the "inspired writers:


    Revelation 12:79 -- “And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought...So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.” Revelation 12:79. NKJV.


    The Bible mentions Michael (his name means “Who is like God?”) in five (5) passages:

    1. In Dan 10:13, Michael is presented as one of the chief princes.

    2. In Dan 10:21, Michael is the only one who is able to help Gabriel in his battle over the minds of the Persian leaders. He is also portrayed as the Prince of God’s people.

    3. Dan 12:1, depicts Michael as the One who stands for His people, i.e., he is their intercessor, protector, and help in the time of trouble. He is pictured as the great Prince.

    4. According to Jude 1:9, Michael has authority to resurrect Moses and is characterized as an archangel.

    5. In Rev 12:7, Michael is the leader of the heavenly army and defeats Satan and his fallen angels. His victory is described in a colorful manner.

    When the above texts are connected with 1 Thess 4:16–18 and John 5:26–29, it becomes evident that Michael’s voice is the voice of the archangel, and this is the voice of Jesus at the resurrection day. On the basis of his role, authority, position, and mission one may conclude that Michael is Christ.


    Daniel chapter 12, Michael stands up at the end of time, and God's people will be delivered as Christ's everlasting kingdom is established. “Michael the archangel”:

    • Portrayed as opposing the devil (Jude 9Rev 12:7-9).
    • Opposing the “Prince of Persia” (שׂר מלכות פּרס) in Daniel 10:13
    • The term ὁ ἀρχάγγελος “the archangel,” (Jude 9) is a reference to Michael’s title the first of the chief princes,” אחד השׂרים הראשׁנים Dan 10:13 and recall the terminology שׂר־צבא יהוה, “Prince of the Host of YHWH” (Josh 5:14).


    Jesus Before the Incarnation:


    The Book of Daniel, Chapter 12:

    • Dan 12:1-7 -- exercised a strong influence on the eschatology of Jesus.
    • Dan 12:1 -- the source for the unprecedented tribulation of Mark 13:19/Matt 24:21, but Dan. 12:2 is the source for Jesus’ description of the resurrection in John 5:28-29.
    • Dan 12:3 -- is the source for Matt 13:43, "Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father".
    • Dan 12:7, "When the power of the holy people has been finally broken, all these things will be completed, " is a source for both Mark 13:4 and Mark 13:30b/Matt 24:34b.
    • Dan 12:13, like Dan. 12:2 -- indicates that the resurrection will occur "at the end of the days"—i.e., the days of persecution that begin when the daily sacrifice is abolished (Dan. 12:11). 

    

    Archangel

    • This term is made up of two Greek words Archos + Angelos which means Ruler of the Angels. Therefore, Michael is the Ruler of the Angels
    • The Hebrew word Michael is composed of three words: 
      • MI = "Who"
      • CHA = "As"
      • EL = "God"
    • Literally, it means "Who is like God" or "Who is as God". 
    • The very name Michael draws attention to His equality with God

    Since Michael is the Old Testament name for Jesus Christ, Michael is not a created being. He is the eternal Son of God. If God disguised Himself among the angels in how He disguised Himself among humans, it may explain why Satan thought he could become God. "Come now, let's reason together":  The Creator-Jesus can choose whatever means, at will, to reveal Himself to humanity. The created (man) doesn't have this option. CM


    PS. @BroRando,

    I responded to your OP above, in light of my May 2018, thread: https://www.christiandiscourse.net/discussion/comment/18486#Comment_18486, I want to bring old truth to a new location. CM

  • BroRandoBroRando Posts: 496

    Thank you. Some are of the opinion that Michael is God because of (Revelation 12:7) However, he is the Angel of Wisdom, Mighty God, Angel of the Great Counsel, the Might God that inherited a Name which made him better than the angels. (Hebrews 1:4)

    You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you with the oil of exultation more than your companions.” (Hebrews 1:9)

     Although he was a son, he learned obedience from the things he suffered. (Hebrews 5:8)

    Since Michael is the Chief Messenger, he is also the Chief Messenger, Chief Agent of Life has been given authority to forgive sins as the son of man. (Exodus 23:20-21) He is one of a kind, and unique.

  • TruthTruth Posts: 421
    edited November 18

    Keep in mind that Rondo almost certainly is not reading your posts. JW's are fear-based and threatened not to place themselves in any compromising position except to plaster their waste all over the walls.

    But just in case, and for the sake of others read if you want to read:

    Fundamental JW beliefs

    Believed to be corrupt …

         —   associating with disfellowshipped Jehovah’s Witnesses, even close relatives

         —   attending church services not conducted by Jehovah’s Witnesses

         —   joining the YMCA/YWCA

         —   close associations with Christians or other false worshippers except for the purpose of winning them over

    Believed to be pagan …

         —   celebrating birthdays

         —   celebrating holidays (for instance, Christmas, New Year’s Day)

         —   celebrating Mother’s or Father’s Day

    Believed to be eating blood …

         —   giving or receiving blood transfusions


    [The much more interesting stuff is coming soon]

  • BroRandoBroRando Posts: 496
    edited November 18

    Soon as the Last Days come to their end, those who refused to repent and turn around will find themselves in a similar situation as Pharaoh. Jehovah said, " For by now I could have thrust my hand out to strike you and your people with a devastating plague, and you would have been wiped out from the earth.  But for this very reason I have kept you in existence: to show you my power and to have My Name declared in all the earth. (Exodus 9:15-16)

    And I will certainly magnify myself and sanctify myself and make myself known before the eyes of many nations; and they will have to know that I am Jehovah. (Ezekiel 38:23)

    I praise you, O Jehovah my God, with all my heart, And I will Glorify Your Name Forever, (Psalms 86:12)

    Jesus said, Father, Glorify Your Name.” Then a voice came out of heaven: “I have glorified it and will glorify it again.” (John 12:28)


    "The time left is reduced." (1 Corinthians 7:29)


  • C McC Mc Posts: 4,341

    @BroRando said:

    "Soon as the Last Days come to their end..."

    Do you know when the last days will end? What will happen when the last days end?

    Do you or JWs WTower know how much time is left or reduced to what period? CM

  • BroRandoBroRando Posts: 496

    Would it matter to you at all? Read the articles to their timing, then I will answer what happens as the Last Days come to their end.

  • How can Jesus be the archangel Michael as four year old Colton Burpo saw both Jesus & the archangel Michael in אלהים God's Holy Heaven ?

    Heaven is for Real special movie edition for Target has a Question & Answer section, which includes Colton Burpo at age 14

    Q: Are your memories of heaven still clear to you, or have some things faded ?

    A: I do remember most of it, but some of it has faded since it's been ten years. The clearest things I remember are sitting on Jesus' lap and being able to meet my sister and my great grandfather. Also, [the archangel] Michael's huge flaming sword.

    Four year old Colton Burpo experienced Jesus and the archangel Michael in אלהים God's Holy Heaven (while Colton's body was dead on earth for a few minutes from a ruptured appendix with abscesses in March 2003). Human JW organizational beliefs about the archangel Michael are simply wrong, which is consistent with unfulfilled JW predictions: JW organization is NOT the truthful communication channel for אלהים God.



    @BroRando November 17 Then Joshua said to the people: “You are not able to serve Jehovah, for he is a holy God; he is a God who requires exclusive devotion. He will not pardon your transgressions and your sins." (Joshua 24:19)

    If someone chooses to believe & serve human Watchtower Society (JW.org), then how will יהוה Yahweh righteously judge that person ?

    How many predictions by the Watchtower Society (JW.org) are currently unfulfilled ?

    October 30 comment lists many failed predictions proving the society is NOT the truthful communication channel for plural e-lo-HEEM אלהים God (society fails simple test of 100% accuracy for predictions).

    Each person choses what to ❤️ Love Most. Scripture interpretation danger is scripture snippet(s) that ignores Holy inspired Scripture context.

    Joshua 24:1-28 LEB => And Joshua gathered all the tribes of Israel to Shechem; he summoned the elders of Israel, their heads, their judges, and their officials, and they presented themselves before אלהים God. And Joshua said to all the people, “Thus says יהוה Yahweh the אלהים God of Israel: ‘Long ago your ancestors — Terah the father of Abraham and the father of Nahor — lived beyond the river, and they served other אלהים gods. I took your ancestor Abraham from beyond the river and led him through all the land of Canaan, and I increased his offspring; I gave him Isaac, and to Isaac I gave Jacob and Esau. To Esau I gave the hill country of Seir to possess, but Jacob and his children went down to Egypt. And I sent Moses and Aaron, and I plagued Egypt with what I did in its midst; and afterward I brought you out. When I brought out your ancestors from Egypt, you came to the sea, and the Egyptians pursued after your ancestors with chariots and horsemen to the Red Sea. They cried out to יהוה Yahweh, and he put darkness between you and the Egyptians, and he brought the sea over them and covered them; your own eyes saw what I did in Egypt. Then you lived in the wilderness for many days. And I brought you to the land of the Amorites who lived beyond the Jordan; they fought you, and I gave them into your hand; you took possession of their land, and I destroyed them before you. Then Balak son of Zippor, king of Moab, set out and fought against Israel, and he sent and summoned Balaam son of Beor to curse you, but I was not willing to listen to Balaam, and he richly blessed you. So I rescued you from his hand, and you crossed the Jordan and came to Jericho. And the citizens of Jericho, the Amorites, the Perizzites, the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Girgashites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites, fought against you, and I gave them into your hand. I sent before you the hornet and they drove out before you two kings of the Amorites; but not by your sword or bow. I gave to you a land that you have not labored on, and cities that you have not built, and you live in them; you eat from vineyards and olive groves that you have not planted.’ “So now, revere יהוה Yahweh and serve him in sincerity and faithfulness; remove the אלהים gods that your ancestors served beyond the river and in Egypt, and serve יהוה Yahweh. But if it is bad in your eyes to serve יהוה Yahweh, choose for yourselves today whom you want to serve, whether it is the gods that your ancestors served beyond the river, or the אלהים gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my household, we will serve יהוה Yahweh.” And the people answered and said, “Far be it from us that we would forsake יהוה Yahweh to serve other אלהים gods, for יהוה Yahweh our אלהים God brought us and our ancestors from the land of Egypt, from the house of slavery, and did these great signs before our eyes. He protected us along the entire way that we went, and among all the peoples through whose midst we passed. And יהוה Yahweh drove out all the people before us, the Amorites who live in the land. We will serve יהוה Yahweh, for he is our אלהים God.” But Joshua said to the people, “You cannot serve יהוה Yahweh, for he is a holy and jealous אלהים God; he will not forgive your transgressions or your sins. If you forsake יהוה Yahweh and serve foreign אלהים gods, he will turn and bring disaster to you; he will destroy you after he has done good to you.” And the people said to Joshua, “No, we will serve יהוה Yahweh.” And Joshua said to the people, “You are witnesses against yourselves that you have chosen for yourselves to serve יהוה Yahweh.” And they said, “We are witnesses.” He said, “Remove the foreign gods that are in your midst, and incline your hearts to יהוה Yahweh the אלהים God of Israel.” And the people said to Joshua, “We will serve יהוה Yahweh our אלהים God, and we will listen to his voice.” So Joshua made a covenant with the people on that day, and he established for them a statute and a judgment at Shechem. Then Joshua wrote these words in a scroll of the law of אלהים God, and he took a large stone and set it up there under a large tree, which is at the shrine of יהוה Yahweh. And Joshua said to all the people, “Look, this stone will be a witness against us, for it has heard all the words of יהוה Yahweh that he spoke with us. It will be as a witness against you, so that you do not deny your אלהים God.” Then Joshua sent the people away to their inheritance.


    Who is the way to יהוה Yahweh ?

    John 14:1-7 LEB (with Hebrew words for Jewish usual translation of יהוה as Lord & אלהים as God in LXX) => “Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in אלהים God; believe also in me. In my Father’s house there are many dwelling places; but if not, I would have told you, because I am going away to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to myself, so that where I am, you may be also. And you know the way where I am going.” Thomas said to him, “יהוה Lord, we do not know where you are going. How are we able to know the way?” Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you had known me, you would have known my Father also. From now on you know him and have seen him.”


    Keep Smiling 😊

  • BroRandoBroRando Posts: 496

    @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus

    "And war broke out in heaven: {Jesus Christ and his angels} battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them any longer in heaven." (Rev 12:7-8)

    That War began in 1914 and has been affecting the earth and its inhabitants ever since. Michael gives encouragement to his followers: "I am coming quickly. Keep holding fast to what you have, so that no one may take your crown. The one who conquers—I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will by no means go out from it anymore, and I will write upon him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the New Jerusalem that descends out of heaven from my God, and My Own New Name." (Rev 3:11-12)

    "So he has become better than the angels to the extent that he has inherited a Name more excellent than theirs." (Hebrews 1:4)

  • C McC Mc Posts: 4,341

    @BroRando said:

    Would it matter to you at all? Read the articles to their timing, then I will answer what happens as the Last Days come to their end.

    @BroRando,

    The terms above are yours. So, stop the "cat and mouse" games. Just tell since it's your website and doctrine. I don't care to be a part of your manipulation to generate traffic to your website. You're too old for this foolishness. Leave child's play for little boys and girls on the playground. Let those under your tutorage [in the Kingdom Hall] see that you're a man and not a mouse. Stand up for what you believe or change what you believe! 

    Others want to know what I asked above:

     @BroRando  said: "Soon as the Last Days come to their end..."

     @C Mc said: "Do you know when the last days will end? What will happen when the last days end?"

     @BroRando  said: "The time left is reduced." (1 Corinthians 7:29)

     @C Mc  said: "Do you or JWs WTower know how much time is left or reduced to what period?" CM

    So, be the witness, for Jehovah, you claimed to be, else way and in these forums. CM

  • What did the voice from heaven say about Jesus ?

    Matthew 3:13-17 LEB (with Hebrew word for Jewish usual translation of אלהים as God in LXX) => Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to John in order to be baptized by him. But John tried to prevent him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?” But Jesus answered and said to him, “Permit it now, for in this way it is right for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he permitted him. Now after he was baptized, Jesus immediately went up from the water, and behold, the heavens opened and he saw the Spirit of אלהים God descending like a dove coming upon him. And behold, there was a voice from heaven saying, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.

    Mark 1:9-11 LEB => And it happened that in those days Jesus came from Nazareth in Galilee and was baptized in the Jordan by John. And immediately as he was coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens being split apart and the Spirit descending like a dove on him. And a voice came from heaven, “You are my beloved Son; with you I am well pleased.

    Luke 3:21-22 LEB => Now it happened that when all the people were baptized, Jesus also was baptized, and while he was praying, heaven was opened, and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove, and a voice came from heaven, “You are my beloved Son; with you I am well pleased.”

    Matthew 17:1-8 LEB (with Hebrew word for Jewish usual translation of יהוה as Lord in LXX) => And after six days Jesus took along Peter and James and John his brother, and led them up on a high mountain by themselves. And he was transfigured before them, and his face shone like the sun, and his clothing became bright as the light. And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with him. So Peter answered and said to Jesus, “יהוה Lord, it is good that we are here! If you want, I will make here three shelters, one for you and one for Moses and one for Elijah.” While he was still speaking, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and behold, a voice from the cloud said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased. Listen to him!” And when the disciples heard this, they fell down on their faces and were extremely frightened. And Jesus came and touched them and said, “Get up and do not be afraid.” And when they lifted up their eyes they saw no one except him — Jesus alone.

    2 Peter 1:16-21 LEB (with Hebrew words for Jewish usual translation of יהוה as Lord & אלהים as God in LXX) => For we did not make known to you the power and coming of our יהוה Lord Jesus Christ by following ingeniously concocted myths, but by being eyewitnesses of that one’s majesty. For he received honor and glory from אלהים God the Father when a voice such as this was brought to him by the Majestic Glory, “This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” And we ourselves heard this voice brought from heaven when we were with him on the holy mountain, and we possess as more reliable the prophetic word, to which you do well if you pay attention to it as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts, recognizing this above all, that every prophecy of scripture does not come about from one’s own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men carried along by the Holy Spirit spoke from אלהים God.

    Was the voice of אלהים God the Father incorrect to call Jesus "my beloved Son" ?



    Who worships אלהים God and the Son of אלהים God ?

    Hebrews 1:1-14 LEB (with Hebrew words for Jewish usual translation of יהוה as Lord & אלהים as God in LXX) => Although אלהים God spoke long ago in many parts and in many ways to the fathers by the prophets, in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom also he made the world, who is the radiance of his glory and the representation of his essence, sustaining all things by the word of power. When he had made purification for sins through him, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, having become by so much better than the angels, by as much as he has inherited a more excellent name than theirs. For to which of the angels did he ever say, “You are my son, today I have begotten you,” and again, “I will be his father, and he will be my son”? And again, when he brings the firstborn into the world, he says, “And let all the angels of אלהים God worship him.” And concerning the angels he says, “The one who makes his angels winds, and his servants a flame of fire,” but concerning the Son, “Your throne, O אלהים God, is forever and ever, and the scepter of righteous is the scepter of your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; because of this אלהים God, your אלהים God, has anointed you with the olive oil of joy more than your companions. And, “You, יהוה Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the works of your hands; they will perish, but you continue, and they will all become old like a garment, and like a robe you will roll them up, and like a garment they will be changed; but you are the same, and your years will not run out.” But to which of the angels has he ever said, “Sit down at my right hand, until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.” Are they not all spirits engaged in special service, sent on assignment for the sake of those who are going to inherit salvation?


    What name will every tongue say about Jesus ?

    Philippians 2:5-11 LEB (with Hebrew words for Jewish usual translation of יהוה as Lord & אלהים as God in LXX) => Think this in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, existing in the form of אלהים God, did not consider being equal with אלהים God something to be grasped, but emptied himself by taking the form of a slave, by becoming in the likeness of people. And being found in appearance like a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, that is, death on a cross. Therefore also אלהים God exalted him and graciously granted him the name above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven and of those on earth and of those under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is יהוה Lord, to the glory of אלהים God the Father.



    @BroRando November 18 "And war broke out in heaven: {Jesus Christ and his angels} battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them any longer in heaven." (Rev 12:7-8)

    NWT has Mi'cha-el in Revelation 12:7 so why do you have {Jesus Christ and his angels} ? (noticed link to untrustworthy JW.org)

    How many predictions by the Watchtower Society (JW.org) are currently unfulfilled ?

    October 30 comment lists many failed predictions proving the society is NOT the truthful communication channel for plural e-lo-HEEM אלהים God (society fails simple test of 100% accuracy for predictions).

    Each person choses what to ❤️ Love Most.


    Keep Smiling 😊

  • BroRandoBroRando Posts: 496

    "And war broke out in heaven: {Jesus Christ and his angels} battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them any longer in heaven." (Rev 12:7-8)

    @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus

    NWT has Mi'cha-el in Revelation 12:7 so why do you have {Jesus Christ and his angels} ?

    Same Person.  John’s description continues: “Moreover, his head and his hair were white as white wool, as snow, and his eyes as a fiery flame.” (Revelation 1:14) His snow-white hair indicates wisdom due to length of life. (Compare Proverbs 16:31.) And his fiery eyes show that he is sharp, alert, as he searches, tests, or expresses indignation. Even Jesus’ feet catch John’s attention: “And his feet were like fine copper when glowing in a furnace; and his voice was as the sound of many waters.” (Revelation 1:15) In the vision, Jesus’ feet are like copper, glowing, bright​—properly so for one who walks zealously and with a fine standing in the presence of Jehovah God. Moreover, while in the Bible divine things are often pictured by gold, so things human are sometimes represented by copper.* So Jesus’ glowing feet like fine copper remind us of how “comely” his feet were when he walked the earth preaching the good news.​—Isaiah 52:7; Romans 10:15.

    https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101988005?

  • @BroRando November 18 "And war broke out in heaven: {Jesus Christ and his angels} battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them any longer in heaven." (Rev 12:7-8)

    @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus November 18 NWT has Mi'cha-el in Revelation 12:7 so why do you have {Jesus Christ and his angels} ?

    @BroRando November 18 Same Person. 

    How can Jesus Christ be the same person as the archangel Michael ?

    Four year old Colton Burpo saw both Jesus Christ (sat on His lap) & the archangel Michael (flaming sword) in אלהים God's Holy Heaven in 2003.

    Heaven is for Real special movie edition for Target has a Question & Answer section, which includes Colton Burpo at age 14

    Q: Are your memories of heaven still clear to you, or have some things faded ?

    A: I do remember most of it, but some of it has faded since it's been ten years. The clearest things I remember are sitting on Jesus' lap and being able to meet my sister and my great grandfather. Also, [the archangel] Michael's huge flaming sword.

    Four year old Colton Burpo experienced Jesus and the archangel Michael in אלהים God's Holy Heaven (while Colton's body was dead on earth for a few minutes from a ruptured appendix with abscesses in March 2003). Human JW organizational beliefs about the archangel Michael are simply wrong, which is consistent with unfulfilled JW predictions: JW organization is NOT the truthful communication channel for אלהים God.


    Keep Smiling 😊

  • BroRandoBroRando Posts: 496
    edited November 19

    Are you claiming that Michael the Archangel is more Powerful then Jesus Christ?

    • Michael is the angel in (Exodus 23:20-21)
    • Michael is the one that spoke with Moses at the burning bush. (Exodus 3:2)
    • Michael is the angel that spoke with Abraham face to face, (Genesis 22:15)
    •  and all got baptized into Moses by means of the cloud and of the sea, (1 Corinthians 10:2)
    • Michael destroyed the unfaithful (1 Corinthians 10:10)
    • The demons knew Jesus was the Name given to Michael asking, are you here to destroy us? (Mark 1:24)

    Do your own research with these scriptures.

  • @BroRando November 18 Are you claiming that Michael the Archangel is more Powerful then Jesus Christ?

    No. Actually Jude 9 shows the Archangel Michael knowing יהוה Jesus & יהוה Father is more powerful.

    @BroRando November 18 "And war broke out in heaven: {Jesus Christ and his angels} battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them any longer in heaven." (Rev 12:7-8)

    @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus November 18 NWT has Mi'cha-el in Revelation 12:7 so why do you have {Jesus Christ and his angels} ?

    @BroRando November 18 Same Person. 

    What is the destination for anyone teaching/practicing falsehood ?

    Revelation 22:12-21 LEB (with Hebrew words for Jewish usual translation of יהוה as Lord & אלהים as God in LXX) => “Behold, I am coming quickly, and my reward is with me, to repay each one according to what his deeds are! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.” Blessed are the ones who wash their robes, so that their authority will be over the tree of life and they may enter into the city through the gates. Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the sexually immoral people and the murderers and the idolaters and everyone who loves and who practices falsehood. “I, Jesus, sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.” And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And the one who hears, let him say, “Come!” And the one who is thirsty, let him come. The one who wants, let him take the water of life freely. I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, אלהים God will add to him the plagues written in this book. And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, אלהים God will take away his share of the tree of life and from the holy city that are written in this book. The one who testifies about these things says, “Yes, I am coming quickly!” Amen! Come, יהוה Lord Jesus! The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all.

    Internet search for Charles Taze Russell Hell includes testimony results about Watchtower Society founder now intensely suffering: e.g. video testimony by Rudolfo Acevedo Hernadez => https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qzqg8UTWxEE Rudolfo told יהוה Jesus No for seeing individual cells in Hell, one of them is described in 23 Minutes in Hell: One Man's Story About What He Saw, Heard, and Felt in That Place of Torment


    Who worships אלהים God and the only begotten Son of אלהים God ?

    Hebrews 1:1-14 LEB (with Hebrew words for Jewish usual translation of יהוה as Lord & אלהים as God in LXX) => Although אלהים God spoke long ago in many parts and in many ways to the fathers by the prophets, in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom also he made the world, who is the radiance of his glory and the representation of his essence, sustaining all things by the word of power. When he had made purification for sins through him, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, having become by so much better than the angels, by as much as he has inherited a more excellent name than theirs. For to which of the angels did he ever say, “You are my son, today I have begotten you,” and again, “I will be his father, and he will be my son”? And again, when he brings the firstborn into the world, he says, “And let all the angels of אלהים God worship him.” And concerning the angels he says, “The one who makes his angels winds, and his servants a flame of fire,” but concerning the Son, “Your throne, O אלהים God, is forever and ever, and the scepter of righteous is the scepter of your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; because of this אלהים God, your אלהים God, has anointed you with the olive oil of joy more than your companions. And, “You, יהוה Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the works of your hands; they will perish, but you continue, and they will all become old like a garment, and like a robe you will roll them up, and like a garment they will be changed; but you are the same, and your years will not run out.” But to which of the angels has he ever said, “Sit down at my right hand, until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.” Are they not all spirits engaged in special service, sent on assignment for the sake of those who are going to inherit salvation?


    What name will every tongue say about Jesus ?

    Philippians 2:5-11 LEB (with Hebrew words for Jewish usual translation of יהוה as Lord & אלהים as God in LXX) => Think this in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, existing in the form of אלהים God, did not consider being equal with אלהים God something to be grasped, but emptied himself by taking the form of a slave, by becoming in the likeness of people. And being found in appearance like a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, that is, death on a cross. Therefore also אלהים God exalted him and graciously granted him the name above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven and of those on earth and of those under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is יהוה Lord, to the glory of אלהים God the Father.



    Where does Scripture describe the archangel Michael ?

    Angel of יהוה Yahweh אלהים God is not named in Exodus 23:20-26 LEB => “ ‘Look, I am about to send an angel before you to guard you on the way and to bring you to the place that I have prepared. Be attentive to him and listen to his voice; do not rebel against him, because he will not forgive your transgression, for my name is in him. But if you listen attentively to his voice and do all that I say, I will be an enemy to your enemies and a foe to your foes. When my angel goes before you and brings you to the Amorites and the Hittites and the Perizzites and the Canaanites and the Hivites and the Jebusites, I will wipe them out. “ ‘You will not bow to their gods, and you will not serve them, and you will not act according to their actions, because you will utterly demolish them, and you will utterly break their stone pillars. And you will serve יהוה Yahweh your אלהים God, and he will bless your bread and your water, and I will remove sickness from among you. There will be no one suffering miscarriage or infertile in your land. I will make full the number of your days.

    Angel of יהוה Yahweh is not named in Exodus 3:1-6 LEB => And Moses was a shepherd with the flock of Jethro, his father-in-law, the priest of Midian, and he led the flock to the west of the desert, and he came to the mountain of אלהים God, to Horeb. And the angel of יהוה Yahweh appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush, and he looked, and there was the bush burning with fire, but the bush was not being consumed. And Moses said, “Let me turn aside and see this great sight. Why does the bush not burn up?” And יהוה Yahweh saw that he turned aside to see, and אלהים God called to him from the midst of the bush, and he said, “Moses, Moses.” And he said, “Here I am.” And he said, “You must not come near to here. Take off your sandals from on your feet, because the place on which you are standing, it is holy ground.” And he said, “I am the אלהים God of your father, the אלהים God of Abraham, the אלהים God of Isaac, and the אלהים God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face because he was afraid of looking at אלהים God.

    Angel of יהוה Yahweh is not named in Genesis 22:1-19 LEB => And it happened that after these things, אלהים God tested Abraham. And he said to him, “Abraham!” And he said, “Here I am.” And he said, “Take your son, your only child, Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains where I will tell you.” And Abraham rose up early in the morning and saddled his donkey. And he took two of his servants with him, and Isaac his son. And he chopped wood for a burnt offering. And he got up and went to the place which אלהים God had told him. On the third day Abraham lifted up his eyes, and he saw the place at a distance. And Abraham said to his servants, “You stay here with the donkey, and I and the boy will go up there. We will worship, then we will return to you.” And Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering and placed it on Isaac his son. And he took the fire in his hand and the knife, and the two of them went together. And Isaac said to Abraham his father, “My father!” And he said, “Here I am, my son.” And he said, “Here is the fire and the wood, but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?” And Abraham said, “אלהים God will provide the lamb for a burnt offering, my son.” And the two of them went together. And they came to the place that אלהים God had told him. And Abraham built an altar there and arranged the wood. Then he bound Isaac his son and placed him on the altar atop the wood. And Abraham stretched out his hand and took the knife to slaughter his son. And the angel of יהוה Yahweh called to him from heaven and said, “Abraham! Abraham!” And he said, “Here I am.” And he said, “Do not stretch out your hand against the boy; do not do anything to him. For now I know that you are one who fears אלהים God, since you have not withheld your son, your only child, from me.” And Abraham lifted up his eyes and looked. And behold, a ram was caught in the thicket by his horns. And Abraham went and took the ram, and offered it as a burnt offering in place of his son. And Abraham called the name of that place “יהוה Yahweh will provide,” for which reason it is said today, “on the mountain of יהוה Yahweh it shall be provided.” And the angel of יהוה Yahweh called to Abraham a second time from heaven. And he said, “I swear by myself, declares יהוה Yahweh, that because you have done this thing and have not withheld your son, your only child, that I will certainly bless you and greatly multiply your offspring as the stars of heaven, and as the sand that is by the shore of the sea. And your offspring will take possession of the gate of his enemies. All the nations of the earth will be blessed through your offspring, because you have listened to my voice.” And Abraham returned to his servants, and they got up and went together to Beersheba. And Abraham lived in Beersheba.

    No angel is mentioned in 1 Corinthians 10:1-33 LEB (with Hebrew words for Jewish usual translation of יהוה as Lord & אלהים as God in LXX) => For I do not want you to be ignorant, brothers, that our fathers were all under the cloud and all went through the sea, and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, and all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual rock that followed them, and the rock was Christ. But אלהים God was not pleased with the majority of them, for they were struck down in the desert. Now these things happened as examples for us, so that we should not be desirers of evil things, just as those also desired them, and not become idolaters, as some of them did, just as it is written, “The people sat down to eat and drink, and stood up to play,” nor commit sexual immorality, as some of them committed sexual immorality, and twenty-three thousand fell in one day, nor put Christ to the test, as some of them tested him, and were destroyed by snakes, nor grumble, just as some of them grumbled, and were destroyed by the destroyer. Now these things happened to those people as an example, but are written for our instruction, on whom the ends of the ages have come. Therefore, the one who thinks that he stands must watch out lest he fall. Temptation has not come upon you except what is common to humanity. But אלהים God is faithful, who will not permit you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but will also make a way out together with the temptation, so that you may be able to endure it. Therefore, my dear friends, flee from idolatry. I am speaking as to sensible people; you judge what I am saying. The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? Because there is one bread, we who are many are one body, for we all share from the one bread. Consider Israel according to the flesh: are not the ones who eat the sacrifices sharers in the altar? Therefore, what am I saying? That food sacrificed to idols is anything, or that an idol is anything? No, but that the things which they sacrifice, they sacrifice to demons and not to אלהים God, and I do not want you to become sharers with demons. You are not able to drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons. You are not able to share the table of the Lord and the table of demons. Or are we attempting to provoke the יהוה Lord to jealousy? We are not stronger than he is, are we? All things are permitted, but not all things are profitable. All things are permitted, but not all things build up. Let no one seek his own good but the good of the other. Eat everything that is sold in the meat market, asking no questions for the sake of the conscience, for “the earth is the יהוה Lord’s, and its fullness.” If any of the unbelievers invites you, and you want to go, eat everything that is set before you, asking no questions for the sake of the conscience. But if someone says to you, “This is offered to idols,” do not eat it, for the sake of that one who informed you and the conscience. Now I am not speaking about your own conscience, but the conscience of the other person. For why is my freedom judged by another’s conscience? If I partake with thankfulness, why am I slandered concerning that for which I give thanks? Therefore, whether you eat or you drink or whatever you do, do all things for the glory of אלהים God. Give no offense both to Jews and to Greeks and to the church of אלהים God, just as I also please all people in all things, not seeking my own benefit, but the benefit of the many, in order that they may be saved.

    Mark 1:22-34 LEB (with Hebrew word for Jewish usual translation of אלהים as God in LXX) => And they were amazed at his teaching, because he was teaching them like one who had authority, and not like the scribes. And so then there was a man in their synagogue with an unclean spirit, and he cried out, saying, “Leave us alone, Jesus the Nazarene! Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are — the Holy One of אלהים God!” And Jesus rebuked him, saying, “Be silent, and come out of him!” And after convulsing him and crying out with a loud voice, the unclean spirit came out of him. And they were all amazed, so that they began to discuss with one another, saying, “What is this? A new teaching with authority! He even commands the unclean spirits and they obey him.” And the report about him then went out everywhere in the whole surrounding region of Galilee. And so then he departed from the synagogue and came into the house of Simon and Andrew with James and John. Now Simon’s mother-in-law was lying down, suffering with a fever, and at once they told him about her. And he came and raised her up by taking hold of her hand, and the fever left her, and she began to serve them. Now when it was evening, when the sun had set, they began bringing to him all those who were sick and those who were demon-possessed. And the whole town was gathered together at the door. And he healed many who were sick with various diseases and expelled many demons. And he did not permit the demons to speak, because they knew him.

    Archangel Michael is named in Jude 5-16 LEB (with Hebrew word for Jewish usual translation of יהוה as Lord in LXX) => Now I want to remind you, although you know everything once and for all, that Jesus, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, the second time destroyed those who did not believe. And the angels who did not keep to their own domain but deserted their proper dwelling place, he has kept in eternal bonds under deep gloom for the judgment of the great day, as Sodom and Gomorrah and the towns around them indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire in the same way as these, are exhibited as an example by undergoing the punishment of eternal fire. Despite that, in the same way also these men, because of their dreams, defile the flesh and reject authority and blaspheme majestic beings. But Michael the archangel, when he argued with the devil, disputing concerning the body of Moses, did not dare to pronounce a blasphemous judgment, but said, “The יהוה Lord rebuke you!” But these persons blaspheme all that they do not understand, and all that they understand by instinct like the irrational animals, by these things they are being destroyed. Woe to them! For they have traveled in the way of Cain, and have given themselves up to the error of Balaam for gain, and have perished in the rebellion of Korah. These are the ones feasting together without reverence, hidden reefs at your love feasts, caring for themselves, waterless clouds carried away by winds, late autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, uprooted, wild waves of the sea foaming up their own shameful deeds, wandering stars, for whom the deep gloom of darkness has been reserved for eternity. And Enoch, the seventh from Adam, also prophesied about these people, saying, “Behold, the יהוה Lord came with tens of thousands of his holy ones to execute judgment against all, and to convict all the ungodly concerning all their ungodly deeds that they have committed in an ungodly way, and concerning all the harsh things that ungodly sinners have spoken against him. These people are grumblers, discontented, proceeding according to their desires, and their mouths speaking pompous words, showing partiality to gain an advantage.

    Archangel Michael knows יהוה Jesus & יהוה Father is more powerful.

    Enoch names seven archangels in Enoch 20:1-7 LES => These are the angels of powers: Uriel, one of the holy angels, who is over the world and the netherworld; Raphael, one of the holy angels, who is over the spirits of men; Raguel, one of the holy angels, who avenges the world of luminaries; Michael, one of the holy angels, who was appointed over the good ones of the people and over the chaos; Sariel, one of the holy angels, who is over the spirits who sin in the spirit; Gabriel, one of the holy angels, who is over paradise and the dragons and Cherubim. These are the seven names of the archangels.These are the angels of powers: Uriel, one of the holy angels, who is over the world and the netherworld; Raphael, one of the holy angels, who is over the spirits of men; Raguel, one of the holy angels, who avenges the world of luminaries; Michael, one of the holy angels, who was appointed over the good ones of the people and over the chaos; Sariel, one of the holy angels, who is over the spirits who sin in the spirit; Gabriel, one of the holy angels, who is over paradise and the dragons and Cherubim. These are the seven names of the archangels.


    Keep Smiling 😊

  • C McC Mc Posts: 4,341

    @BroRando said:

    Why are you being decptive? ... If you click both links, they lead back to this site that I posted earlier...

    @BroRando,

    What do you take CD Posters to be? A bunch of empty-headed, spiritual "nuts"? Did you suppose to be clever? Again, you are slick, but you can't slide. Even a blind man can see that when one "click both links, they lead back to this site that I posted earlier..." and then back to your JWs website: https://www.brorando.com/post/the-last-days-that-began-in-1914-are-now-coming-to-their-end.

    In broad daylight, you try to pull this off. Shame on you! Just answer the question. Others want to know what I asked above:

     @BroRando  said: "Soon as the Last Days come to their end..."

     @C Mc said: "Do you know when the last days will end? What will happen when the last days end?"

     @BroRando  said: "The time left is reduced." (1 Corinthians 7:29)

     @C Mc  said: "Do you or JWs WTower know how much time is left or reduced to what period?" CM

    You don't know the answer, or you are ashamed of them? Be the witness, for Jehovah, you claimed to be, elsewhere and in these forums. CM

  • @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus asked

    Who is the way to יהוה Yahweh ?

    Well, according to your many long-winded confused posts the way to יהוה Yahweh actually is יהוה Yahweh Jesus himself 😉

  • TruthTruth Posts: 421
    edited November 19

    @Wolfgang Your spirit (which you don't think you have-or maybe it's a body, or eternal life, or all these that you don't have) seems more troubled than usual. How can we best help?

  • C McC Mc Posts: 4,341

    @Wolfgang said:

    Well, according to your many long-winded confused posts the way to יהוה Yahweh actually is  יהוה Yahweh Jesus himself  😉

    Which is it @Wolfgang, your statement above or below?

    I asked, @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus about his many long posts. @C Mc said to @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus:

    Although what you shared is often long, I am curious to know if those in opposition (active posters in CD) understand 

    It was only @Bill_Coley who said concisely:

    “I comprehend the materials @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus shares."

    @Wolfgang, you said:

    "I do to some degree ... and have often responded in detail (!) to his own arguments."

    I guess this is one of those times. Regardless,  @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus, shorter is better, but a summary is preferred for the interest of time and comprehension. The longer the post, the longer it will take for some to get your point. Keep posting, but be considerate in packing your posts. Some must be long, depending on the contextual materials, but if you can summarize your posts, it would be helpful. Let's try to be concise as possible. CM

  • BroRandoBroRando Posts: 496
    edited November 19

    @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus

    There is only one Archangel. The Archangel is unique and one of a kind being the Beginning of Creation. (Revelation 3:14) He was the one who humbled himself even though he was existing in God’s form. (Philippians 2:5-8) Michael means "who is like God?" so many people think he is God. However, Michael is God's Servant.

    "Look! My servant, whom I support! My chosen one, whom I have approved! I have put my spirit in him; He will bring justice to the nations." (Isaiah 42:1) If Jesus is God as you keep saying, then My Servant has to be Michael. Jehovah's Servant is the chosen one, the one who is approved, the one who will be Justice to the nations because they fail to Obey the Archangels Voice.

    Many think that Adam and Eve went hiding from God. No they went hiding from the Voice of Jehovah God whom was walking about in the Garden of Eden. (Genesis 3:8) Why did Adam and Eve go hiding? Because they disobeyed the Voice of Jehovah God, knowing that their transgressions would not be pardoned. (Exodus 23:20-21) Whether you call Michael the Voice of Jehovah God or the Word of God, Michael is still Jehovah God's Chief Messenger.

    So who is the Servant of God? Michael or God? You profess God is God's Servant and so do the rest who disobey theVoice of Jehovah God. Isn't Micahel the one with the flaming sword who judged Adam and Eve? (Genesis 3:24)

    Michael is the one who was given the Name. For this very reason, God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name,  so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend—of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground." (Philippians 2:9-11)

    Michael brings justice to the nations who refused to listen or obey his voice, he will not pardon your transgressions. "Do not think I came to bring peace to the earth; I came to bring, not peace, but a Sword." (Matthew 10:34)

    So who was that Person who defeated Satan in Heaven? Michael or God? "And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled  but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them any longer in heaven." (Rev 12:7-8)

    Who was the person that became better than the angels becaue of the Name he inherited? "So he has become better than the angels to the extent that he has inherited a name more excellent than theirs." (Hebrews 1:4)

    Michael or God?

    Post edited by BroRando on
  • TruthTruth Posts: 421
    edited November 19

    Hebrews 1:5 NWT says,

    “For example, to which of the angels did he [God] ever say: ‘You are my son; I, today, I have become your father’?”

    The answer to the question is, of course, “none.”

    if God never called an angel his Son, then Michael—who is an angel—cannot be the Son. 


    @BroRando

    I can understand your frustration seeing the fallacy you peddled for long being exposed in the light of the truth.  Now is a good time to repent.

  • BroRandoBroRando Posts: 496

    The answer to which angel is answered by Paul himself. "So, too, the Christ did not glorify himself by becoming a high priest, but was glorified by the One who said to him: “You are my son; today I have become your father.” (Hebrews 5:5)

    During his life on earth, Christ offered up supplications and also petitions, with strong outcries and tears, to the One who was able to save him out of death, and he was favorably heard for his godly fear.  Although he was a son, he learned obedience from the things he suffered. (Hebrews 5:7-8)


    “For there stood by me this night the angel of God, whose I am, and whom I serve,” Acts 27:23

  • TruthTruth Posts: 421
    edited November 19

    To believe that is to contradict Hebrews 1:5.

    To believe that is to downgrade Jesus.

    To believe that is to pray to and worship an angel.


    @BretClopto you are beleiving a lie. Indeed the Lord is returning soon and you still have time to repent and confess truth.

  • BroRandoBroRando Posts: 496

    The answer to which angel is answered by Paul himself. "So, too, the Christ did not glorify himself by becoming a high priest, but was glorified by the One who said to him: “You are my son; today I have become your father.” (Hebrews 5:5)

    If you read (Hebrews 5:5) this when Jesus was begotten a second time. He was the first 'to be' born again.

    Yes, angels are called sons of God. (Job 38:7)

  • TruthTruth Posts: 421
    edited November 19

    You are wrong due to conflating terms in different contexts, but that still leaves you with polytheism and worshipping an angel--both expressly forbidden.


    The Watchtower has deceived you.

  • BroRandoBroRando Posts: 496

    So which scripture do you want to delete? (Hebrews 5:5) which proves that you are being untruthful?

    OR (Job 38:7) where morning stars and angels are called "sons" of God? Maybe you like to remove Christ's words at (Rev 22:16)

    Since angels are called sons of the true God in Genesis 6:2, what does that make Jesus Christ? An angel. 😁


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