Bible or Copernicus?

Do we live on a tiny tiny tiny tiny "solid" ball floating around an expanding sort of "almost empty" space with millionis billions trillions or more gas balls also floating around with distances measuring totally unimaginable numbers of miles and even millions of "light years"? In other words, what is "science" really telling us with their ideas of an exploding "cosmos" (that started with a "big bang" unimaginably long ago)?

Does the Bible have a different cosmos in view in what it reports about heavens and earth? about God and man?

Comments

  • Bill_Coley
    Bill_Coley Posts: 2,675

    @Wolfgang posted:

    Do we live on a tiny tiny tiny tiny "solid" ball floating around an expanding sort of "almost empty" space with millionis billions trillions or more gas balls also floating around with distances measuring totally unimaginable numbers of miles and even millions of "light years"?

    In my view, Wolfgang, your description takes some creative license, but is essentially correct about the scientific consensus regarding the state and population of the observable universe. Compared to most astronomical objects, the earth IS a "tiny tiny tiny 'solid' ball floating around" what is expanding space. And the distances between objects in space IS beyond most human imagination. My goodness, the closest star to the earth is 4.3 light years away, which is about 26 trillion miles. The most distant observable objects in the universe are 13 billion light years from us. Astonishing.


    In other words, what is "science" really telling us with their ideas of an exploding "cosmos" (that started with a "big bang" unimaginably long ago)?

    I think what science is telling is currently the best and most accurate description of the origins, content, and future of the universe. In the future, might there be major revisions to the current model? Of course; in fact, I'd bet on it because the history of astronomy is filled with such changes. But that's the beauty of science! Throughout history, science has revised its description of the world around us as human knowledge expanded. I can't imagine that we'd want it any other way. What's the alternative? "We know the best available evidence suggests X is true, but since we've always believed Y is true, not X, we're not going to change our view"?


    Does the Bible have a different cosmos in view in what it reports about heavens and earth? about God and man?

    In my view, the cosmos of the Bible is not a scientific construct, but a theological one. For Bible writers, whatever is up and out there in the universe is God's handiwork. The ancients didn't know about other galaxies or the cosmic microwave background... and didn't need to know, for theirs were declarations of faith, not theories from scientific discovery.

  • C Mc
    C Mc Posts: 4,463

    FOR WHAT ITS WORTH!

    The heavens witness to the Bible’s revelation of God and of His power:

    1.     “The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament shows His handiwork.” Psalm 19:1


    ·       “Everything points with overwhelming force to a definite event, or series of events, of creation at some time or times, not infinitely remote. The universe cannot have originated by chance out of its present ingredients, and neither can it have been always the same as now.” -Sir James H. Jeans, Eos, page 55. 

     

    2.     All created things give witness to their Maker and to the truth of the Bible record.


    ·       “For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead.” 


    ·       “All human discoveries seem to be made only for the purpose of confirming more and more strongly the truths contained in the Sacred Scriptures.” - Sir John Herschel, quoted by Howard A. Johnston, Bible Criticism and the Average Man, page 26. 


    ·       “Science is compelled to accept the idea of creative power.”-Lord Kelvin, quoted by Bernard Heywood, This Is Our Faith, page 36. 


    ·       “In our study of natural objects, we are approaching the thoughts of the Creator, reading His conceptions, interpreting a system that is His and not ours.”- Louis J. R. Agassiz, Methods of Study in Natural History, 19th ed., page 14


    There are some striking facts of the natural world which were actually anticipated in the Bible long before they were discovered by the scientists”


    1.     “He ... hangs the earth upon nothing.” Job 26:7. 

    ·      The suspension of the earth in space was described by Copernicus in 1543. 

    ·      “He looks to the ends of the earth: to make the weight for the winds.” Job 28:24,25. 

    ·      Galileo, (1564-1642) was the first to affirm that air had weight. 


    2.     “Who hath measured the waters in the hollow of His hand, and meted out heaven with the span, and comprehended the dust of the earth in a measure, and weighed the mountains in scales, and the hills in a balance?” Isaiah 40:12.

    ·      Only in recent years has it been realized how important are the proportions and balance of the land masses and oceans on the earth’s surface. 


    3.     “They [the heavens and the earth] shall perish; but Thou remains; and they all shall wax old as cloth a garment.” Hebrews 1:11

    ·       Not until the twentieth century was the progressive aging and disintegration of matter by radioactivity discovered. Nature is going down. “The downward journey is easy, while the upward is either hard or impossible.”-Sir lames H. Jeans, The Universe Around Us, page 306.


    4.     “For the life of all flesh is the blood thereof.” Leviticus 17:14. 

    ·      The circulation and function of the blood was discovered by William Harvey in 1615. 

    ·      “Prophecy and miracle confirm the word; science and revelation are co-witnesses to the same God; astronomy hints His eternity, immensity, infinity, natural philosophy tells of His omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresence; physiology suggests His wisdom and goodness the beginnings of life, of consciousness, of intelligence and of conscience, are miracles which cannot be accounted for without Almighty power, and ought to make both atheism and pantheist alike impossible. While the heart of man and the history of man unite to witness to a need and a craving never filled except by Christ Jesus.” -Arthur T. Pierson, Many Infallible Proofs, page 19.


    5.     Men have spoken “to the earth,” and it has taught us. 

    ·      Buried civilizations of earlier days have yielded their treasures to the spade of the archaeologist. 


    6.     There are Bible facts once denied by the critics, but have been completely confirmed by modern archaeological discoveries.

    ·      They declared that Abraham was a half-savage nomad quite incapable of the activities credited to him in the Biblical record. Now it has been proven by Professor Leonard Woolley that a high state of civilization existed in the Near East long before the days of Abraham. Read his Ur of the Chaldees. Sir Charles Marston, New Bible Evidence, pages 88-123. 

    Until next time, the Bible speaks before and beyond man. CM

  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited December 2019

    What's the alternative? "We know the best available evidence suggests X is true, but since we've always believed Y is true, not X, we're not going to change our view"?

    The alternative could be that both often propagated theories "X" or "Y" are wrong and not really the truth which the Creator's revelation in Scripture reveals ... which may be "A" 😉

    What is propagated as "best evidence" is not even real evidence as it is only what some perceive and claim to be true ... put in simple words, the evidence some see is that two sides of a train track converge into one in only a short distance ... or they scientifically calculate distances based on the assumption that light rays are straight rather than curved ...

    In addition, certain observations including infra-red photography have shown objects way past the supposed horizon line of a convex ... which should be ab impossibility according to the model of a convex earth globe ....

  • The worst of the current Copernican model of a universe is that it essentially does away with a Creator God ... as does all man made "theology", replacing the true God with various kinds of man invented (and thus actually man elevating) "God"-imaginations and "God"-descriptions.

  • C Mc
    C Mc Posts: 4,463

     "Man made "theology"? What is true "theology"? An example, if not the trinity. CM

  • "Man made "theology"? What is true "theology"? An example, if not the trinity. CM

    In short, all "theology" is man made ... it is what man has thought up about God and put in systematic thought and word; in other words, it has its origins with man.

    In contrast to "theology" you have divine revealed truth .. it is what God has revealed about Himself and has made known by means of revelation.

  • Hello everyone,

    anyone interested should have a look at some scientific experiment and its results for determining the cosmological sphere of the earth:


  • C Mc
    C Mc Posts: 4,463

    What's the point, Wolfgang?


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  • What's the point, Wolfgang? CM

    The point is that scientific measuring will support the worldview found in Scripture .. which has been basically eradicated by the Copernican worldview which has done away with God and which claims the earth to be a convex sphere while the measurements show it to be a concave sphere.

    Biblical truth or science ... which do we want to believe ???

  • C Mc
    C Mc Posts: 4,463
    edited January 2020

    ...

    Post edited by C Mc on
  • C Mc
    C Mc Posts: 4,463

    wrong thread. CM

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