Can the trinity be trusted as a Biblical Teaching?

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  • Brother RandoBrother Rando Posts: 766
    edited November 2021

    The world of ungodly nation come against Jehovah and His Anointed One. (Pslam 2:2)


      Why are the nations agitated

    And the peoples muttering* an empty thing?a

      The kings of the earth take their stand

    And high officials gather together* as oneb

    Against Jehovah and against his anointed one.*c

      They say: “Let us tear off their shackles

    And throw off their ropes!”

      The One enthroned in the heavens will laugh;

    Jehovah will scoff at them.

      At that time he will speak to them in his anger

    And terrify them in his burning anger,

      Saying: “I myself have installed my kingd

    On Zion,e my holy mountain.”

      Let me proclaim the decree of Jehovah;

    He said to me: “You are my son;f

    Today I have become your father.g

      Ask of me, and I will give nations as your inheritance

    And the ends of the earth as your possession.h

      You will break them with an iron scepter,i

    And you will smash them like a piece of pottery.”j

    10  So now, you kings, show insight;

    Accept correction,* you judges of the earth.

    11  Serve Jehovah with fear,

    And rejoice with trembling.

    12  Honor* the son,k or God* will become indignant

    And you will perish from the Way,l (Exodus 23:20-21)

    For His anger flares up quickly.

    Happy are all those taking refuge in Him.


    Preaching the Good News to such one who have rejected Jesus the Christ the son of living God (Matthew 16:16) will soon come to their end.

    Visit JW.org Get Accurate Answers to Your Questions. Bible is in over 120 (tongues) and over 1,067 languages of Bible Literature.

  • TruthTruth Posts: 521
    edited November 2021

    Scripture itself is always a good thing.

    The unreliable NWT Jehovah Witness Bible is not a trustworthy version for study, but the basic message is there.


    Yes, our Lord and King Jesus is coming again.

    No, the resurrection didn't already occur in 1848 as taught by JW Popes.

    Jesus didn't already return in 1914 but turn out to be invisible, as Charles "Crazy" Russel taught.

    CT Russel was a rich kid who had too much time and money on his hands and invented a new religion. 150 years later, people are still duped by it.

    • JW's are not going to Heaven (ask them)
    • JW's believe Jesus already returned but you can't see Him.
    • JW's have never experienced the Holy Spirit (ask them) and don't believe He exists. * To JW's, the HS is a sort of modalism god.
    • JW's don't believe Jesus rose physically (in spite of the Bible), so of course they can't believe Thomas could address Jesus as "God" when poor Thomas could not see Jesus--even though Jesus said Thomas did see him.
    • JW's don't believe Hell is real in spite of what the Bible says.
    • JW's refuse to pray to Jesus (Note the great story of Stephen's prayer to Jesus in Acts 7:59)
    • JW's practice an odd sort of polytheism, calling Jesus "a god" distinct from Jehovah whom they also believe to be God.
    • JW's totally miss out on life and presence of God in their lives: Romans 8:11, “If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.”

    The Spirit is a person who can teach, be grieved, be resisted, speak, help, and much more.

    Post edited by Truth on
  • C McC Mc Posts: 4,425

    @Truth,

    Your list above appears to be things  @Wolfgang  has passionately promoted in these forums.  @Wolfgang  said he is not a JW. If this is so, at least he has been influenced by them. And at best,  @Wolfgang sympathizes with most of their out of mainstream "Christian" teachings. If I am wrong,  @Wolfgang  can and is capable of speaking for himself. I wonder, what of the JWs he disagrees with, in general, and on Jesus, in particular? CM

  • @BroRando How should one interpret your repeated silence for my questions about what Jesus commanded ?

    @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus November 9 What did Jesus command the man set free from "Legion" of demons to say & do in Luke 8:26-39 & Mark 5:1-20 ?

    @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus November 19 @BroRando Instead of letting a man set free follow Jesus, what did Jesus command the man to do and say in Mark 5:19 & Luke 8:39 ?

    Mark 5:1-20 LEB (with Hebrew words for Jewish usual translation of יהוה as Lord & אלהים as God in LXX) => And they came to the other side of the sea, to the region of the Gerasenes. And as he was getting out of the boat, immediately from the tombs a man with an unclean spirit went to meet him, who lived among the tombs. And no one was able to bind him any longer, not even with a chain, because he had often been bound with shackles and chains, and the chains had been torn apart by him, and the shackles had been shattered. And no one was strong enough to subdue him. And during every night and day among the tombs and on the mountains he was crying out and cutting himself with stones. And when he saw Jesus from a distance, he ran and knelt down before him. And crying out with a loud voice he said, “What have I to do with you, Jesus, Son of the Most High אלהים God? I implore you by אלהים God, do not torment me!” (For he was saying to him, “Come out of the man, unclean spirit!”) And he was asking him “What is your name?” And he said to him, “My name is Legion, because we are many.” And he was imploring him many times that he would not send them out of the region. Now a large herd of pigs was there at the hill feeding, and they implored him, saying, “Send us to the pigs so that we may enter into them.” And he permitted them. And the unclean spirits came out and entered into the pigs, and the herd—about two thousand—rushed headlong down the steep slope into the sea and were drowned in the sea. And their herdsmen fled and reported it in the town and in the countryside, and they came to see what it was that had happened. And they came to Jesus and saw the demon-possessed man sitting there clothed and in his right mind—the one who had had the legion—and they were afraid. And those who had seen it described to them what had happened to the demon-possessed man, and about the pigs. And they began to urge him to depart from their region. And as he was getting into the boat, the man who had been demon-possessed began to implore him that he could go with him. And he did not permit him, but said to him, “Go to your home to your people and tell them all that the יהוה Lord has done for you, and that he has had mercy on you.” And he went away and began to proclaim in the Decapolis all that Jesus had done for him, and they were all astonished.

    Luke 8:26-39 LEB (with Hebrew word for Jewish usual translation of אלהים as God in LXX) => And they sailed to the region of the Gerasenes, which is opposite Galilee. And as he got out on the land, a certain man from the town met him who had demons and for a considerable time had not worn clothes and did not live in a house, but among the tombs. And when he saw Jesus, he cried out, fell down before him, and said with a loud voice, “What do I have to do with you, Jesus, Son of the Most High אלהים God? I beg you, do not torment me!” For he had commanded the unclean spirit to come out of the man. (For it had seized him many times, and he was bound with chains and shackles and was guarded, and breaking the bonds he would be driven by the demon into the deserted places.) So Jesus asked him, “What is your name?” And he said, “Legion,” because many demons had entered into him. And they began imploring him that he would not order them to depart into the abyss. Now there was a large herd of pigs feeding there on the hill, and they implored him that he would permit them to enter into those pigs. And he permitted them. So the demons came out of the man and entered into the pigs, and the herd rushed headlong down the steep slope into the lake and were drowned. And when the herdsmen saw what had happened, they fled and reported it in the town and in the countryside. So they went out to see what had happened, and they came to Jesus and found the man from whom the demons had gone out sitting there clothed and in his right mind, at the feet of Jesus, and they were afraid. And those who had seen it reported to them how the man who had been demon-possessed had been healed. And all the people of the surrounding region of the Gerasenes asked him to depart from them, because they had been seized with great fear. So he got into the boat and returned. And the man from whom the demons had gone out was begging him to stay with him, but he sent him away, saying, “Return to your home and tell all that אלהים God has done for you.” And he went away, proclaiming throughout the whole town all that Jesus had done for him.



    @BroRando November 10 Who was the voice speaking to Moses? ... (Exodus 3:2)

    @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus November 19 What is the range of meaning for angel (Hebrew Strong's # 4397) ?

    Quoted "ANGEL" from W. E. Vine, Merrill F. Unger, and William White Jr., Vine’s Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words (Nashville, TN: T. Nelson, 1996), 4–5.

    @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus November 19 When was יהוה Word first sent by יהוה Will with a message ?

    @Keep_Smiling_4_Jesus November 19 When יהוה Word took on human flesh to be born as יהוה Jesus (God with us), יהוה Will became יהוה Father (fulfilled Psalm 2 prophecy).

    @BroRando November 20 The world of ungodly nation come against Jehovah and His Anointed One. (Pslam 2:2)

    The kings of the earth establish themselves, and the rulers conspire together against Yahweh and his anointed: (Psalm 2:2 LEB)

    יתיצבו מלכי-ארץ ורוזנים נוסדו-יחד על-יהוה ועל-משיחו (Psalm 2:2 unpointed Masoretic text in Codex Leningradensis that dates back to 1008 CE)

    יתיצבו - set oneself - verb, hiṯpaʿʿēl, yiqtōl (imperfect), 3rd person, masculine, plural

    מלכי - king - noun, common, masculine, plural, construct

    ארץ - earth - noun, common, singular, absolute

    ורוזנים - and; dignitary - conjunction; verb, Qal, participle, masculine, plural, absolute

    נוסדו - get together, conspire - verb, nifʿal, qātal (perfect), 3rd person, plural

    יחד - together - noun, common, singular, absolute

    על - against - preposition

    יהוה - Yahweh - noun, proper, masculine, singular, absolute

    ועל - and; against - conjunction; preposition

    משיחו - anointed one; he - noun, common, singular, construct; pronoun, suffixed, 3rd person, masculine, singular

    Setting themselves kings of the earth and dignitarily conspired together against יהוה Yahweh and against anointed one of Him

    (my stilted literal translation is much closer to LEB than NWT - looked up various Biblical Hebrew grammatical concepts)

    hiṯpaʿʿēl — In Biblical Hebrew, ‘stem’ refers to the relationship of the verb’s subject to the action of the verb. That is, stems convey grammatical ‘voice’ relationships. The hiṯpaʿʿēl is the reflexive counterpart of the piʿʿēl stem. With reflexive verb forms, the subject of the verb acts upon or with respect to itself. The piʿʿēl stem expresses the bringing about of a state. The object of the piʿʿēl verb’s action “suffers the effect” of the action. In the sentence “Bob flies the plane,” the direct object [plane] is put into the state of flight by the subject of the verb [Bob]. The hiṯpaʿʿēl would be illustrated by “Bob flies the plane himself,” a reflexive sense which makes it clear that the subject is not being assisted or acted upon by another force. See IBHS 26; BHRG §16.6; J.-M. §53; GKC §54, meaning: §54.e.

    yiqtōl (imperfect) — The prefixed conjugation in Hebrew. The prefixed conjugation denotes the imperfective aspect of the verb. That is, it views the action of the verb from the inside or from the perspective of the action’s unfolding. This imperfective aspect can speak of (depending on context) habitual actions, actions in progress, or even completed actions that have unfolding, ongoing results. The term ‘imperfective’ does not refer to tense, though. Biblical Hebrew does not have tense like English or Greek (time of action is conveyed by context). ‘Imperfective’ refers to the kind of action being described, not the time of the action. An action can be viewed in process in the past (“was walking”), the present (“is walking”), or even the future (“will be walking”). When the context dictates, the prefixed conjugation also conveys the indicative mood, the mood of reality. [Note, some grammars do teach a tense-based view of the Hebrew verb, and this form sometimes is labeled the ‘future’ tense, with the wayyiqtōl labeled the ‘inverted-future’.] See IBHS §31; BHRG §15.2, §19.3; GKC §47, §107; J.-M. §44, §113.

    construct — The state of the noun, infinitive or participle used to indicate that it is grammatically bound to the nominal that follows it in a (broadly) possessive / genitival construction. The ending of the noun in the construct position will often change from that of its absolute state. The noun in construct has different endings from the absolute form in all numbers and genders except the masculine singular (which has no endings) and the feminine plural where it is the same as the absolute. See BHRG §25; J.-M. §92, §139; IBHS §9.2-7; GKC §89, §§128-130.

    qal — In Biblical Hebrew, ‘stem’ refers to the relationship of the verb’s subject to the action of the verb. That is, stems convey grammatical ‘voice’ relationships. The qal is the unmarked stem; it has no nuanced meaning per se. See GKC §§43-50; IBHS §22; BHRG §16.2; J.-M. §§41-50.

    participle — A participle is a verbal adjective, i.e., a word that has characteristics of both a verb and an adjective or noun. Participles can therefore function as a verb (“teaching”), modify a noun (“teaching position”; “teaching pastor”), or a substantive noun (“Teaching is fun”). The participle in Hebrew and Aramaic codes for stem, number and gender, like other verb forms, but not aspect/tense or person (as the finite verbs have). Like adjectives, nouns and infinitive verbs, it may be found in construct or absolute states. See also passive participle. See J.-M. §50, §66, §121; BHRG §15.8, §20.3; IBHS §37; GKC §50, §61h, §116.

    nifʿal — In Biblical Hebrew, ‘stem’ refers to the relationship of the verb’s subject to the action of the verb. That is, stems convey grammatical ‘voice’ relationships. The nifʿal stem is the reflexive counterpart to the qal stem (or the piʿʿēl or hifʿîl stems in cases where the qal stem is unattested or intransitive). It conveys reflexive action, where the subject of the verb both carries out and receives the action of the verb. The nifʿal is also occasionally used for simple passive, where the subject of the verb receives the action of the verb. See J.-M. §51; BHRG §16.3; IBHS §23; GKC §51.

    qātal (perfect) — The suffixed conjugation in Hebrew. The suffixed conjugation denotes the perfective aspect of the verb. That is, it views the action of the verb from an outer perspective, the perspective of seeing or thinking of the action of the verb as a whole and complete, without respect to the time of the action. The perfect conjugation conveys the totality of an action without dividing up its chronological processes. The Hebrew perfect, then, is not a tense, a grammatical term that speaks of the time of the verb’s action (past, present, future, etc.). Biblical Hebrew does not have tense like English or Greek (time of action is conveyed by context). Perfective aspect refers to a kind of action, not the time of the action. An action in Hebrew may be viewed or conceived as entire even if that action has not yet taken place. [Note: there are grammars that present a tense, rather than aspect, interpretation of the Hebrew verb.] When the context dictates, the suffix conjugation also conveys the indicative mood, the mood of reality. See BHRG §15.1, §19.2; GKC §44, §106; IBHS §30; J.-M. §42, §112.

     Heiser, M. S., & Setterholm, V. M. (2013; 2013). Glossary of Morpho-Syntactic Database Terminology. Lexham Press.

    Translation process is intersecting target language range of meaning with source language range of meaning WITHIN the bounds of translator beliefs.

    If you believe a human organization is the only correct communication channel between yourself and God, then your belief filter "sees" ideas that aligns with organization. Simple test for prophet of Holy God is 100% accuracy. Watchtower Society (JW.org) fails prophecy testing so that human organization should NOT be trusted. Thankful for @C Mc posting 26 failed predictions with page citations in JW sources on October 30, 2021

    Every human chooses what to ❤️ Love most. If you really want to love יהוה Yahweh your אלהים God with all of you, then put away untrustworthy Watchtower Society stuff, including the New World Translation (due to the society beliefs being bent into their "translation" text). Highly recommend learning to read Bible text in paragraphs and larger context. Chapter & verse numbers were added ~500 years ago.

    Jesus desires an intimate loving ❤️abiding communion with you so can do miracles in/thru you as you believe & allow.  Matthew 11:1-30 LEB => And it happened that when Jesus had finished giving orders to his twelve disciples, he went on from there to teach and to preach in their towns. Now when John heard in prison the deeds of Christ, he sent word by his disciples and said to him, “Are you the one who is to come, or should we look for another?” And Jesus answered and said to them, “Go and tell John what you hear and see: the blind receive sight and the lame walk, lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear, and the dead are raised, and the poor have good news announced to them. And whoever is not offended by me is blessed.” Now as these were going away, Jesus began to speak to the crowds concerning John: “What did you go out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken by the wind? But what did you go out to see? A man dressed in soft clothing? Behold, those who wear soft clothing are in the houses of kings. But why did you go out? To see a prophet? Yes, I tell you, and even more than a prophet! It is this man about whom it is written: ‘Behold, I am sending my messenger before your face, who will prepare your way before you.’ Truly I say to you, among those born of women there has not arisen one greater than John the Baptist. But the one who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. But from the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven is treated violently, and the violent claim it. For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John, and if you are willing to accept it, he is Elijah, the one who is going to come. The one who has ears, let him hear! “But to what shall I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the marketplaces who call out to one another, saying, ‘We played the flute for you and you did not dance; we sang a lament and you did not mourn.’ For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, ‘He has a demon!’ The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Behold, a man who is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ But wisdom is vindicated by her deeds.” Then he began to reproach the towns in which the majority of his miracles had been done, because they did not repent: “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. Nevertheless I tell you, it will be more bearable for Tyre and for Sidon on the day of judgment than for you! And you, Capernaum, will you be exalted to heaven? No, you will be brought down to Hades! For if the miracles done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until today. Nevertheless I tell you that it will be more bearable for the region of Sodom on the day of judgment than for you!” At that time Jesus answered and said, “I praise you, Father, יהוה Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent, and have revealed them to young children. Yes, Father, for to do so was your gracious will. All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son wants to reveal him. Come to me, all of you who labor and are burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke on you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy to carry and my burden is light.

    Internet search for: Charles Taze Russell Hell finds a video where Jesus shows woe for Charles Taze Russell, founder of Watchtower society.


    Mark 12:28-34 LEB (with Hebrew words for Jewish usual translation of יהוה as Lord & אלהים as God in LXX) => And one of the scribes came up and heard them debating. When he saw that he answered them well, he asked him, “Which commandment is the most important of all?” Jesus answered, “The most important is, ‘Listen, Israel! The יהוה Lord our אלהים God, the יהוה Lord is one. And you shall love the יהוה Lord your אלהים God from your whole heart and from your whole soul and from your whole mind and from your whole strength.’ The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.” And the scribe said to him, “That is true, Teacher. You have said correctly that he is one and there is no other except him. And to love him from your whole heart and from your whole understanding and from your whole strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself, is much more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.” And Jesus, when he saw that he had answered thoughtfully, said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of אלהים God.” And no one dared to put a question to him any longer.


    The word trinity (tri-unity) does not appear in Scripture text. Humanly do not know how my understanding of One unique plural e-lo-HEEM אלהים God (mis)aligns with various human trinitarian authors (who have differing opinions about trinity doctrine being implicit OR explicit).

    Jewish Zohar mysticism describes 10 sefirot (attributes) of One God (in refutation of trinity), yet "sees" three names in Deuteronomy 6:4 יהוה אלהינו יהוה (Hebrew אלהינו is plural e-lo-HEEM אלהים God with 1st person plural pronoun suffix => We God or Our God).

    Thankful for me to be a follower of The Way: John 14:1-7 LEB (with Hebrew words for Jewish usual translation of יהוה as Lord & אלהים as God in LXX) => “Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in אלהים God; believe also in me. In my Father’s house there are many dwelling places; but if not, I would have told you, because I am going away to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to myself, so that where I am, you may be also. And you know the way where I am going.” Thomas said to him, “יהוה Lord, we do not know where you are going. How are we able to know the way?” Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you had known me, you would have known my Father also. From now on you know him and have seen him.”


    🙏 Praying for God's Holy Healing in all life domains: heart (emotional), mind (mental), soul (social), strength (physical), & worship (spiritual) along with God's mercy to be poured out plus justice done 🙏 while weeping 😭 with those who are weeping 😭& 😍 Rejoicing with those Rejoicing 😍

    Thankful God chooses who, what, where, & when, to heal ❤️😍 praying for many, especially Jesus is יהוה Lord אלהים God believers & human enemies, so some freely receive God's Holy Healing ❤️(for spiritual enemies, includes Breath The Holy opening eyes to truly see so human can choose what to ❤️ Love most). Praying for Watchtower Society repentance from deceptive sins with conversion to truly Love ❤️God the most.


    Look for Love, אלהים God's Love ❤️ in 1 John 4:1-21 LEB (with Hebrew word for Jewish usual translation of אלהים as God in LXX) => Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to determine if they are from אלהים God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of אלהים God: every spirit that confesses Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from אלהים God, and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from אלהים God, and this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world. You are from אלהים God, little children, and have conquered them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. They are from the world; therefore they speak from the world and the world listens to them. We are from אלהים God. The one who knows אלהים God listens to us; whoever is not from אלהים God does not listen to us. By this we know the Spirit of truth and the spirit of deceit. Dear friends, let us love one another, because love is from אלהים God, and everyone who loves has been fathered by אלהים God and knows אלהים God. The one who does not love does not know אלהים God, because אלהים God is love. By this the love of אלהים God is revealed in us: that אלהים God sent his one and only Son into the world in order that we may live through him. In this is love: not that we have loved אלהים God, but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. Dear friends, if אלהים God loved us in this way, we also ought to love one another. No one has seen אלהים God at any time. If we love one another, אלהים God resides in us and his love is perfected in us. By this we know that we reside in him and he in us: that he has given us of his Spirit. And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world. Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of אלהים God, אלהים God resides in him and he in אלהים God. And we have come to know and have believed the love that אלהים God has in us. אלהים God is love, and the one who resides in love resides in אלהים God, and אלהים God resides in him. By this love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment, because just as that one is, so also are we in this world. There is no fear in love, but perfect love drives out fear, because fear includes punishment, and the one who is afraid has not been perfected in love. We love, because he first loved us. If anyone says, “I love אלהים God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar, for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen is not able to love אלהים God whom he has not seen. And this is the commandment we have from him: that the one who loves אלהים God should love his brother also.


    Keep Smiling 😊

  • Yet, the scriptures you use removed God's Name some 7,000 times and even removed Christ from Mark 1:34

    Visit JW.org Get Accurate Answers to Your Questions. Bible is in over 120 (tongues) and over 1,067 languages of Bible Literature.

  • TruthTruth Posts: 521

    A Catholic monk (probably) invented the word "Jehovah." That word is NOT God's name, yet you base an entire cult on it. "Jehovah" does not exist in any original language text. The word is an invented English rendering of one of God's names as given in the Bible.

    Christ is not removed from any known Bible. Scholars with accountability have attempted to render the best possible translations into English and no one is removing Christ. The NWT is a cult translation by anonymous "scholars."

    "Jehovah" is a Catholic monk added word inserted into NWT Bibles 7000 times to replace God's true name as written in Hebrew.


    Here is a book that might help you or anyone else needing to escape the bondage of the watchtower and its Popes.

    https://www.amazon.com/Free-Bondage-watchtower-X-Witness-Perspective/dp/1470152975


  • Interesting how hyprocitical you are. You are the one claimng that Jehovah is the Name of all three distinct persons. The same Catholic Monk also made up the name Jesus.

    So slandering God's Name and Christ's won't go well for you.

    Visit JW.org Get Accurate Answers to Your Questions. Bible is in over 120 (tongues) and over 1,067 languages of Bible Literature.

  • TruthTruth Posts: 521

    Interesting how hyprocitical you are. You are the one claimng that Jehovah is the Name of all three distinct persons. 


    יהוה‎ is God's primary name in Hebrew. God is one God.

    If the term "three distinct persons" is inconceivable to you, then stop using it. It works for me because I know enough about God and His attributes to find it a helpful descriptor. I wouldn't insist that you use "persons" or "trinity" if that is a personal issue for the thinking you are coming out of.

    Just know that God is known in the Bible as Father, Son, Holy Spirit, יהוה‎, and many other names. He is never known in the autographs as "Jehovah," although I don't object to that Catholic-English term--I use that term and have no interest in slandering it.

    You tend to ignore explanations of trinity and Scriptures others bring to you. I understand. The Watchtower is well-known for controlling JW thinking that way. The term steps on every nerve in your body because that is how you were taught to think. I and others should avoid stepping on your raw nerves. In return, please think for yourself and come across as honest.

    Let me add something: I suspect you have a good heart and really want to do the right thing. I suspect you know your Bible well. The problem is you have been steeped a long time in really bad extra-biblical teaching. If you get to where you truly know Jehovah and the REAL Jesus, your life will be transformed and you could do great things for His Kingdom!

  • The triniy is a cult. It rejects God Name but also rejects the Messiah's Name. Show your trinity doctrine and stop evading and tossing up smoke screens.

    Visit JW.org Get Accurate Answers to Your Questions. Bible is in over 120 (tongues) and over 1,067 languages of Bible Literature.

  • TruthTruth Posts: 521

    You are flailing at windmills. The smoke you see is from the Watchtower--perhaps ignited by your own fear of them, Be honest. Go back and read the post above again. Open your heart to the real Jehovah and see how truth penetrates delightfully into your soul.

  • Brother RandoBrother Rando Posts: 766
    edited November 2021

    You claimed Jehovah is a Cult name. So it obvious you don't beleive in Jesus either since Jehovah stated he would have his Name in the messenger he sends. (Exodus 23:20-21 LEB)

    Jesus when translated means 'Jehovah is Salvation"

    Visit JW.org Get Accurate Answers to Your Questions. Bible is in over 120 (tongues) and over 1,067 languages of Bible Literature.

  • Stop evading and post your trinity doctrine.

    Visit JW.org Get Accurate Answers to Your Questions. Bible is in over 120 (tongues) and over 1,067 languages of Bible Literature.

  • TruthTruth Posts: 521
    edited November 2021

    You claimed Jehovah is a Cult name.

    What I claim is that a cult is named "Jehovah's Witness."

     So it obvious you don't beleive in Jesus

    The Jesus I am speaking of is my Lord and God. He is my Savior.

    Your Watchtower Jesus I do not know...the one you say is NOT your Lord and God, the one you say is not your savior.

    Jesus when translated means 'Jehovah is Salvation"

    That much you got right. What a perfect name for Jehovah who came to live among us as the man Jesus!

    ---

    Stop evading and post your trinity doctrine.

    I am not evading you. Trinity doctrine is found everywhere in the Bible, on these forums, on Google. Most of all, it is a matter of the heart. You believe it or you reject it. One other possibility is that the Watchtower has deceived you.

    Burn your tracts, Pick up a trusted Bible translation. Trust in Jesus as your God and savior instead of fearing the Watchtower. Just try it quietly for a few days, weeks, months. I suspect weeks is enough. The Holy Spirit will overpower your heart with joy, peace, and truth. He will set you free.

    I am not interested in proving anything to you. I am not good at that and not interested. I doubt that I can prove anything to you anyway--the Watchtower has iron talons around your heart I am interested in inviting you to freedom from those talons, to know the only true God, Jesus Christ, who is the only one who can save you and set you free.

    ---

    Just like Jehovah told us in the Bible:

    "For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him" (Colossians 1:19)

    "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." Jn 1:4

    Lovely in Greek:

    Καὶ ὁ λόγος σὰρξ ἐγένετο, καὶ ἐσκήνωσεν ἐν ἡμῖν — καὶ ἐθεασάμεθα τὴν δόξαν αὐτοῦ, δόξαν ὡς μονογενοῦς παρὰ πατρός — πλήρης χάριτος καὶ ἀληθείας.

  • Brother RandoBrother Rando Posts: 766
    edited November 2021

    Still refusing to post the triniy doctrine heh? Obviously I forced you to eat Crow. After you blaphemed God's Name and since I pointed that God's Messenger would have God's Name in him... are you now are admiting that Jesus is the angel in (Exodus 23:21)?

    You don't beleive in Jesus, never did... otherwise you would never slandered the Name. Nor do you bleieve in "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." Jn 1:4

    Remember you back the antichrisitan LEB that removed 'begotten' from the scriptures. READ (John 1:14 LEB)


    Visit JW.org Get Accurate Answers to Your Questions. Bible is in over 120 (tongues) and over 1,067 languages of Bible Literature.

  • TruthTruth Posts: 521

    Still refusing to post the triniy doctrine heh?

    Your anger has overcome you. I forgive you. I and others have given you vast Trinity doctrine. It seems you are not reading posts. I have no cure for that.

    Obviously I forced you to eat Crow.

    I eat communion bread. Try it.

    After you blaphemed God's Name and since I pointed that God's Messenger would have God's Name in him... you now are admit that Jesus is the angel in (Exodus 23:21)?

    I don't know what to do with something so befuddled as what you wrote. If you want to learn more about it, then maybe lay it out your confusion simply and clearly. I think the messenger of Ex 23:21 was an angel and not Jesus--like the text says. Your Watchtower eisegesis (probably you are not to blame) is hermeneutics I cannot accept.

    I am indeed convinced that the Watchtower Jesus you describe is not related to the one we find in the Bible. So no, I do not know the Watchtower Jesus.

     Nor do you bleieve in "And the Word was made flesh,

    God was made flesh in the man Jesus. Just like John says.

    'begotten'

    Gk  monogenes can be translated "begotton." Probably "one of a kind" is better in todays venacular.

    All such terms, "father, "son," "begotton" are human terms that inadequately and analogously describe the whole being of God. Such words are not perfect, but go a long way and a sufficient way for us to know who the real Jehovah and Jesus are. These descriptions help us recognize the true God from the false gods of cults like JW's.

  • It just shows how brainwashed you are to think their is salvation in false gods like the trinity. You're refusal of posting the trinity that you claim is a false flag. The trinity can not be trusted as a Biblical teaching.


    Visit JW.org Get Accurate Answers to Your Questions. Bible is in over 120 (tongues) and over 1,067 languages of Bible Literature.

  • TruthTruth Posts: 521
    edited November 2021

    Peace.

    I had hoped to push you firmly and manfully toward truth, but I sense that you have become emotionally unstable. It is time for me to back off before you fall completely off your wagon. Just think and pray awhile.

  • We are on opposite sides. Christians aren't trinitarians and trinintarians aren't Chirstians. I'm alone in pushing the truth that Jesus is the Christ the Son of the living God (Matthew 16:16) for salvation.

    You're on the other side pushing a false salvation in God the Son that is not even Biblical. Even anti-christian. The universal trinity church would burn my brothers in Christ at the starous for wanting to translate the Bible into comman languages. But as the Last Days come to their end, it will flip flop on members of the trintarian cult.

    "This takes into account that it is righteous on God’s part to repay tribulation to those who make tribulation for you." (2 Thess 1:6)

    Visit JW.org Get Accurate Answers to Your Questions. Bible is in over 120 (tongues) and over 1,067 languages of Bible Literature.

  • @C Mc wrote

    Your list above appears to be things  @Wolfgang  has passionately promoted in these forums.  @Wolfgang  said he is not a JW. If this is so, at least he has been influenced by them. And at best,  @Wolfgang sympathizes with most of their out of mainstream "Christian" teachings. If I am wrong,  @Wolfgang  can and is capable of speaking for himself. I wonder, what of the JWs he disagrees with, in general, and on Jesus, in particular? CM

    The straw that broke the camel's back .....

    There is no reason to remain active in these forums ... hypocrisy is not with what I will associate further.


  • TruthTruth Posts: 521

    @Wolfgang - How can I remove some straws for you?

  • @Wolfgang - How can I remove some straws for you?

    Too late, dude ... the back is already broken .... DID YOU NOT READ WHAT I WROTE ???

  • TruthTruth Posts: 521

    I only wish to help in your time of need.

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