An Admission of A Trinitarian

C McC Mc Posts: 4,341
edited October 12 in Apologetics

Let me make it clear to all:

The New Testament does not have any explicit statement on the Trinity—apart from 1 John 5:7, which has been rejected as a medieval addition to the text—but the Trinitarian evidence is overwhelming.

Furthermore, there are two factors we must all come to grips:

  • First, the term, "Trinity" is NOT found in Scripture.
  • Second, the Trinity is a hard concept to understand to our modern, analytical, and mathematical minds. How can three equal one or one equal three?

If we are willing to accept the two above points, please, CD Posters/readers and anti-trinitarian, we do find in Scripture many references to three persons in God. For many people, this truth adds to the confusion in people’s minds. Although the Old Testament emphasizes

  • The exclusive unity of God (Deut 6:4; 5:7–11).
  • Also its alluion to the plurality of God (Gen 1:2, 26; 11:7; 18:1–33; Exod 23:23).

Of all allusions to this plurality of God in the Old Testament, (e.g. Isa 42:1 and 48:16), they come very close to a Trinitarian formulation. Don't you agree with the points stated above?

Now, let's settle down and mine the Scriptures on an important subject and stop acting like screaming cats on a "hot tin roof". End this biblical Guerrilla warfare, while taking sideswipes at one another's name and character. Jesus is clearly described as divine in the gospel of John (John 1:1–3; 20:28). Jesus, himself, proclaims his own divinity (John 8:58).

In the New Testament we also find clear references to the three persons of the Godhead.

  • All three are mentioned at the baptism of Jesus (Matt 3:16–17).
  • During the Lord’s Supper Jesus comforts his disciples with the thought that he and the Father would send the Holy Spirit to guide them after his departure (John 14:16–17).
  • All three persons are part of the baptismal formula found in Jesus’ great commission to his disciples (Matt 28:19)
    • Paul readily refers to all three persons in many of his epistles (Rom 8:9–11; 2 Cor 13:14; 2 Tim 1:3–14; Eph 1:13–14; 3:14–19).
    • Peter acknowledges the work of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in the salvation of people (1 Pet 1:2).
    • John is a witness of the Spirit’s testimony regarding Jesus, the Son of God (1 John 5:5–9).
    • The book of Revelation -- presents three persons involved in the final events of this world (Rev 1:4–5; 22:16–18).

Despite these biblical evidences to the triune God, it becomes somewhat ambivalent for some people because the Holy Spirit is often referred to with metaphors of objects:

  • A dove (Matt 3:16)
  • The wind (John 3:8)
  • Fire (Isa 6:6, 7)
  • Water (John 7:37–39)
  • Oil (Matt 25:1–4).

Moreover, adding to this ambivalence are some New Testament statements that appear to refer to Jesus as having had a beginning when he is referred to as “begotten” (monogenes) or “firstborn of all creation” (prototokos) (John 3:16; Col 1:15).

The doctrine of the Trinity brings up some issues:

Historically, the doctrine of the Trinity is closely connected with the Christological disputes the early church struggled with. The early church through a series of councils:

  • Confirmed the eternal divinity of Jesus.
  • Opened the way for a clarification of the relationship between God the Father and Jesus.

“The more emphatic the church became that Christ was God, the more it came under pressure to clarify how Christ related to God.” Alister E. McGrath, Historical Theology: An Introduction to the History of Christian Thought (Malden: Blackwell, 1998), 61.

In addition, the the early church needed to clarify the relationship between Father, Son and Holy Spirit and involved acceptance of Jesus as Savior and Lord. This meant that the Trinity found its way into the creeds of the church. The Niceo-Constantinopolitan creed confesses in part that:

We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, . . . We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father. . . . We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father. With the Father and the Son he is worshipped and glorified.”

Any student of history knows that the later western versions of the Nicene Creed added the clause: “who proceeds from the Father .” The addition of this clause was one of the issues that led to the great schism between east and west in 1054.

Until next time, let's search the Scriptures with an opened mind and little more humility. Let's allow the spotlight of truth to shine and reveal the organic roots, stems, growth and development of the one God self-revealed in Scripture as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This important subject must not be bannered about like a common-debate for self-agrandizement. CM


SOURCE:

  • G. W. Bromiley, “Trinity,” in Walter A. Elwell, ed., Evangelical Dictionary of Theology (Grand Rapids: Baker, 1984), 1112.
  • Alister E. McGrath, Historical Theology: An Introduction to the History of Christian Thought (Malden: Blackwell, 1998), 61.
  • Roger E. Olson, The Story of Christian Theology: Twenty Centuries of Tradition & Reform (Downers Grove: InterVarsity, 1999), 195–196.

Comments

  • If we are willing to accept the two above points, please, CD Posters/readers and anti-trinitarian, we do find in Scripture many references to three persons in God.

    There is NOTHING whatever in Scripture about "three persons in God". God is NOT a "multiple persons / multiple personalities" God.

    Now, ancient religions holding to such "multiple God persons" ideas have all correctly considered that such "multiple God persons" are multiple Gods => polytheistic mythologies.

    When thus influenced folks in the early church tried to introduce such "three God persons" ideas, they faced the insurmountable big hurdle that in Bible Scripture the truth that the true God is only a ONE PERSON God is too obvious and can't be removed or simply replaced. Their solution then was: We leave God is one, and we also make this God a "three person trinity God" and sweep any logical or reasonable arguments against our "holy trinity" dogma under the carpet by claims of it being a big mystery that the human mind just cannot really understand or explain. If someone asks how we then could have known that, we claim that we "just know by faith".

    And millions of people have been duped and misled by such "wolves in sheep clothing"

  • C McC Mc Posts: 4,341

    @C Mc's promised to follow up:

    Until next time, let's search the Scriptures with an opened mind and little more humility. Let's allow the spotlight of truth to shine and reveal the organic roots, stems, growth and development of the one God self-revealed in Scripture as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This important subject must not be bannered about like a common-debate for self-agrandizement. CM

    In addition, @Wolfgang said:

    There is NOTHING whatever in Scripture about "three persons in God". God is NOT a "multiple persons / multiple personalities" God.

    With Bible in hand, prayer, and humility consider the pure biblical findings and be blessed. Here is a summary of biblical evidence in the establishment of the divinity of God: 

    1. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are eternal (Rom 16:26; John 8:58; Mic 5:2; Heb 9:14; Deut. 33:27). 
    2. The Father, the Son, and the Spirit created all things (1 Cor 8:6; Ps 100:3; Col 1:16; Job 33:4). 
    3. The Three are each omnipresent (Jer. 23:24; Matt 28:20; Ps 139:7; Acts 17:28, 29). 
    4. The Three are each omniscient (Acts 15:18; John 21:17; 1 Cor. 2:10; Heb. 4:13). 
    5. The Three are each true and good (John 7:28; 17:17; Ps 34:8; John 10:11; 14:6; 1 John 5:6). 
    6. They each have a self-regulating will (Eph 1:11; Matt 11:27; John 17:24; 1 Cor 12:11). 
    7.  They are each the fountain of life (Deut. 30:20; Ps. 36:9; John3:8; 5:21; Deut. 30:20). 
    8. They each sanctify us (Phil 4:13; 1 Cor 1:2; Eph 3:16; 1 Thess. 5:23; 1 Pet 1:2; Jude 1). 
    9. Each fills our souls with divine love (1 John 5:1; 2:15; 2 Cor 5:14; Rom 15:30; Col 1:8; Jude 21). 
    10. Each gives divine law (Neh. 8:8; Ps 19:7; Acts 13:2; Rom 8:2; Gal 6:2; Col 3:16). 
    11. Each dwells in believers’ hearts (Eph 3:17; John 14:17; 2 Cor 6:16; Col 1:27; Isa 57:15). 
    12. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are, each by Himself, the supreme Jehovah and God
    • (a) “I am” (Exod 20:2)
    • (b) “Jehovah our God” (Isa 4:3; cf. Matt 3:3) and “the Highest” (Luke 1:76; Matt 10:11).
    • (c) “Jehovah God” (Ezek. 8:1, 3) and “the Highest” (Luke 1:35). Yet God is one (Deut. 6:4). 

    This is not the last word, but a good word from God's Word. Now,  @Wolfgang, you can believe again and be at peace. The truth of who God is speaking to  @Bill_Coley @BroRando @theMadJW, @Truth, @Jan, @reformed, and all true Bible Believers. Be at peace! CM


    Source for further reading:

    • Robert D. Culver, Systematic Theology: Biblical and Historical (Ross-shire, UK: Christian Focus Publication, 2005), p. 108.
  • Those who actually read the Bible do have an advantage over those who read into the Bible.

  • TruthTruth Posts: 421

    Those who actually read the Bible do have an advantage over those who read into the Bible.

    Those who filter their Bible through the straw Watchtower and its JW Popes end up...well, where? Look around these forums.

    These aren't the innocent little newly-duped sweethearts that come knocking on your door.

  • C McC Mc Posts: 4,341

    Fellow Posters,

    When you read the Bible, you see The Trinity in the Scriptures:

    • Christ came to reveal the Father (John 14:9b) and bring Him glory (John 17:4). 
    • The Holy Spirit comes to reveal truths not given by Christ and bring glory to Christ (John 16:12–14). 
    • Both Christ and the Spirit reveal the loving relationship in their missions on behalf of the Father and the Son (among the Trinity). 
      • Christ prayed that His followers "may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I in you" (John 17:21a). 
      • The Father loves the Son (Matt 3:17; John 10:17; 17:24b), which reveals the loving relationship among the Trinity. It is no wonder "the fruit of the Spirit is love" (Gal 5:22, 23), for "God is love" (1 John 4:8).

    Brethren, let's get back to the pure Word. The Bible will explain itself and reveal who God is. Be blessed! CM

  • Bill_ColeyBill_Coley Posts: 2,583


    @C Mc posted:

    When you read the Bible, you see The Trinity in the Scriptures:

    Your post gives us a chance to identify and clarify some of the basic differences between our Christological points of view. I consider that a good thing, so thank you.

    You've offered several helpful starting points for discussion, so for clarity's and brevity's sakes, I will address one per post.

    In both John 14 and John 17, Jesus makes a clear distinction between himself and God, the one he calls "the Father."

    • No one comes to the Father except through Jesus (John 14.6). As I read the New Testament, God's working "through" Jesus is a recurring theme (e.g. Acts 2.22; 4.30; 10.36; 13.38; Romans 2.16; 3.24; 5.15,17,21; 6.11,23; 1 Cor 8.6; 15.57; Gal 3.14; Eph 1.5; 3.11; 1 Thessalonians 5.9, and many others). I take the "through" image to report that Jesus is a conduit of God's actions in the world, NOT God godself (cf. John 5.19,30, where Jesus says the Son can do nothing except what God tells him to do, and that he carries out the will of the one who sent him - i.e. the one working "through" him - and NOT his own will. See also John 15.5, where Jesus makes a similar claim about his followers: They won't be able to do anything apart from him, unless he is "in" them).
    • The Father is "in" Jesus and Jesus is "in" the Father (John 14.10), the verse in which Jesus ALSO says the words he speaks are not his own and the Father works "through" Jesus (John 14.10, NLT).
    • Jesus then gives insight into what he means by his being "in" the Father when he extends the reach of the concept to his followers: "When I am raised to life again, you will know that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you." (John 14.20, NLT). That is, he and his followers will be "in" each other the same way that he is "in" his Father. To be "in" the Father, therefore, is not a declaration of divinity, but a declaration of intimacy.
    • Jesus expresses the same basic idea in John 17: "I am praying not only for these disciples but also for all who will ever believe in me through their message. I pray that they will all be one, just as you and I are one—as you are in me, Father, and I am in you. And may they be in us so that the world will believe you sent me" (John 17.20-21, NLT). Jesus wants his followers to be "one" in the same way ("just as") he and the Father are one; he wants them to be "in" him and the Father.
    • So both "one"-ness and "in"-ness declare intimacy, not divinity.
    • John 17.3: Jesus defines the way to eternal life as knowing his Father, whom he calls "the only true God," AND Jesus Christ, the one [God] sent to earth." Jesus understands his Father to be "the only true God" and himself to be the one the "only true God" sent to earth.
    • In my view, the distinction Jesus makes between himself and God is crystal clear in these verses.


    I will welcome and respond to your questions and comments about my exegesis of these texts and others that you cite. Let's make this exchange exemplary of the kind of exchange the "criticize ideas, not people" expectation envisions.

  • TruthTruth Posts: 421
    edited November 26

    So both "one"-ness and "in"-ness declare intimacy, not divinity.

    "So...."

    Your premises are good; however, your conclusions consistently do not follow. Nothing in your premises points to excluding Christ's divinity.

    Your premises could better support that "one"-ness and "in"-ness declare the intimacy of divinity.

  • Bill_ColeyBill_Coley Posts: 2,583


    @Truth posted:

    Your premises are good; however, your conclusions consistently do not follow. Nothing in your premises points to excluding Christ's divinity.

    Your premises could better support that "one"-ness and "in"-ness declare the intimacy of divinity.

    The conclusions I drew in my previous post flowed from the premises I based on the 20+ Scripture texts I cited in my previous post. Since your response included no Scripture texts, and nothing more than a single sentence declaration of disagreement with my conclusions, I conclude that you and I interpret those texts differently.

    The "intimacy of divinity"? Jesus wants his followers to be "one" just as he and the one he calls "Father" are "one" (John 17.20-21). And he wants his followers and he to be "in" each other in the same way that he is in the Father (John 14.20). WHATEVER intimacy he has with the Father is THE SAME intimacy he wants his followers to have with each other. Hence, said intimacy can't be an intimacy of divinity. I know you disagree, but please explain why.

    I've just told you where in the texts I find support for my conclusion that Jesus does not refer to an intimacy of divinity. Where in the texts do you find support for your view that he does?


    And one other area, which stems from the texts I cited previously: In John 7.16, Jesus says his "teaching" is not his own, but is from the one who sent him. At Gethsemane and in John 5.30, Jesus makes clear that he seeks the fulfillment of his Father's, not his personal, will. If Jesus believed himself to be God, wouldn't his teaching and will have been the same as his Father's? How could there have been any substantive difference between his teaching/will and God's and he still be God? If there were no substantive differences between his teaching/will and God's, then why did he explicitly declare that his teaching wasn't his own and that he didn't want his own will to be done?

  • BroRandoBroRando Posts: 496
    edited November 26

    Well the trinity is not in the Bble. The teaching that God is in three seprates persons is not in any scriptures either. Nor can the trinity give anyone salvation. When someone approached Jesus asking him a question and using the term 'Good teacher' what was Jesus response?

    Jesus said to him: “Why do you call Me good? Nobody is good except one, God.” (Mark 10:18)

    Then again on the night of his betrayal, Jesus says, "Father, if you want to, remove this cup from me. Nevertheless, let, not My will, but Yours take place." (Luke 22:42)

    When trinitarians proclaim 'Jesus is God.' Can we conclude that God cried out, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” (Matthew 27:46

    Did God become much better than the angels because of the Name he inherited? Was God worse than the angels before he inherited a name? (Hebrews 1:4)

  • TruthTruth Posts: 421
    edited November 27

    The conclusions I drew in my previous post flowed from the premises I based on the 20+ Scripture texts I cited in my previous post.

    @Bill_Coley My response is based in the same scriptures you indicated. Same premises. So, I included exactly as many and the same Scripture content and same emphasis identically as you did.

    There isn't much to add. The same is true of your added questions. Same premises, vastly different conclusion.

  • Bill_ColeyBill_Coley Posts: 2,583

    @Truth posted:

    My response is based in the same scriptures you indicated. Same premises. So, I included exactly as many and the same Scripture content and same emphasis identically as you did.

    There isn't much to add. The same is true of your added questions. Same premises, vastly different conclusion.

    This response seems to me to be akin to a defense attorney's rising after the conclusion of the prosecution's case to say, "Your Honor, we accept all the testimony and other evidence the prosecution adduced, but we disagree with the prosecution's conclusions about that evidence. With that, the defense rests." Such an approach has little hope of success because it's not a real defense.

    Or a tennis match in which one player hits the ball over the net to his or her opponent, but the opponent just catches the ball and tosses it on the court and says "I think I won that point." In such circumstances, no competitive tennis is possible.

    In the current case, I didn't ask whether you agreed with my conclusions; I knew you didn't. I asked you to explain WHY you don't agree, and how, in your view, the texts I've cited and you've endorsed support your conclusions, both as to "one-ness" and "in-ness" and as to Jesus' and God's will. Your answer, "Same premises, vastly different conclusion," doesn't in any way meaningful manner address the questions I asked, so no real engagement on these issues is possible. Is that your objective?

    You and others in these threads have voiced considerable and harsh judgment about my Christology and Christianity. Because I've presented a clear and detailed summary of part of my theology, you have a chance to identify errors in my thinking, to put substance behind some of your many accusations. Instead, you choose the one sentence escape hatch, "Same premises vastly different conclusions."

    I applaud and thank you for your consecutive posts that contained no insults or other personal attacks in this current exchange. A welcome change in the tone of our interactions, I hope you agree. Now please add substance to your posts so that we can have genuine exchanges of ideas and critiques on these important matters.

  • TruthTruth Posts: 421

    I respect your right to reject my statement. I stand behind it fully.

  • Bill_ColeyBill_Coley Posts: 2,583

    @Truth posted:

    I respect your right to reject my statement. I stand behind it fully.

    Okay. For the record, this was a good faith effort on my part to initiate real dialogue between us on these matters. I'm sorry we couldn't achieve that result.

    On the bright side, your streak of consecutive replies to me that were free of personal invective is now three. Thank you.

  • BroRandoBroRando Posts: 496
    edited November 27

    It seems that you are coming around and starting to use the name Jehovah. I thought you might be interested in one of your followers. I guess he thinks your in a cult too.

    Truth Posts: 286 6:13PM edited 6:14PM Flag

    JW's hide the real the real God (יהוה)‎ behind a made-up word Jehovah. The word is fine but hiding God behind that word and denying the Lord, God, and savior Jesus Christ is the work of the Watchtower and its minions. Thus a cult is built.

  • BroRandoBroRando Posts: 496

    When he slanders Jehovah, he knows very well he is slandering Jesus too.

    Many trintarians who reject the Name of God, also reject the Baptism in the Name of his Christ. Many Religions have removed God's Holy and Sacred Name claiming Jehovah is a made up Name. If that was true, then why leave names in the Bible that bear witness to the Name JEHOVAH, like Jesus, John, and Elijah along with many others??

    • Jesus means 'Jehovah is Salvation'
    • John means 'Jehovah has been Gracious'
    • Elijah means 'My God is Jehovah'
    • Hallelujah means 'Praise Jah" which is short for Jehovah


  • TruthTruth Posts: 421

    What have you got against black people?

  • C McC Mc Posts: 4,341
    edited December 4

    Fellow Posters,

    At the beginning of the book of Revelation, the Trinity is seen as a flashing neon light on a moonless night:

    “. . . Grace to you and peace, from him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven spirits who are before his throne, and from Jesus Christ . . .” (Rev 1:4-5).


    1. The three divine beings are found next to each other, yet differently, e.g., in Rev 2:7, 26-29; 3:5-6,12-13, 21-22.

    • Sometimes “was” and is are reversed.
    • Sometimesis to come” is missing.

    But in the five places in Revelation where this wording is employed, it refers to God (Rev 1:4, 8; 4:8; 11:17; 16:5).


    2. The “seven spirits before his throne” describes the Holy Spirit who under this naming appears in Rev 1:4; 3:1; 4:5; and 5:6.

    • In other places, the Holy Spirit is called “Spirit” only. E.g., in Rev 2:7, 11, 17, 29; 3:6, 13, 22; 14:13; 22:17.
    • On the Spirit, the scholar Bauckham writes:

    “References to the Spirit fall into two major categories: those which refer to ‘the seven Spirits’ and those which refer to ‘the Spirit’. . . . The four references to the sevenfold Spirit correspond to the seven occurrences of the fourfold phrase which designates all the people of the earth (Rev. 5:9; 7:9; 10:11; 11:9; 13:7; 14:6; 17:15). They also correspond to the 28 (7x4) references to the Lamb, which . . . indicate the worldwide scope of the Lamb’s victory. The seven Spirits are closely associated with the victorious Lamb (Rev. 5:6).” See also page 110.


    One can’t deny that there is a close relationship between Jesus and the Father and between Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Three distant Divine Beings. It’s not the JWs nonsense of one head with three faces.

    The Holy Spirit found in Jesus’ farewell speeches (John 14-16) indirectly reflects the situation in Revelation. e.g.

    • In Rev 5:6, the Lamb is linked to the Holy Spirit.
    • Jesus’ messages to the seven churches are at the same time messages of the Holy Spirit (Rev 2-3).
    • Also, messages for all those willing to listen.


    In sum, Revelation assured us of the Trinity in which Jesus is included. So much so that In the center of the book, this divine Trinity is confronted with the satanic trinity. We can explore this another time. CM


    PS. Oh, say, @Bill_Coley, in Revelation, the Trinity, can you see?


    SOURCE:

    • Richard Bauckham, The Theology of the Book of Revelation, New Testament Theology (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1993), p 110.
  • BroRandoBroRando Posts: 496


    Where is the Lamb of God in the trinity? It's the trinity of three deceptive spirits that battle the Lamb of God. (Rev 16:13)

    These will battle with the Lamb, but because he is Lord of lords and King of kings, the Lamb will conquer them. Also, those with him who are called and chosen and faithful will do so.” (Revelation 17:14)

  • TruthTruth Posts: 421
    edited December 4

    JW’s can’t find the Lamb but think he is some little god. Explain that one.

    You might think they Watchtower Popes might clear up the mystery, but as it turns out, they invented it and frighten their victims into parroting their little god nonsense.

    If anyone disagrees with them they either threaten them with being shunned, or wail in dismay that they are being persecuted.

  • C McC Mc Posts: 4,341

    Minor correction:

    I said above incorrectly: "Three distant Divine Beings..."

    Correctly it should be Three DISTINCT Divine Beings.


    FURTHERMORE:

    LET ME SAY while I am at it, which is not in the text above: The Trinity is One! One in Purpose, Power, and Redemption! CM

  • BroRandoBroRando Posts: 496

    The Lamb of God is Jesus Christ. CHRIST is never mentioned in your trinity of three deceptive spirits. See the 666 in of the trinity? (Revelation 16:13) All parts are co-egual. One part is not Greater or Lesser than the other part. That's sounds like your trinity.


    THE NKJV & WITCHCRAFT?

    The Craft: A Witch's Book of Shadows

    The Witch's Book of Shadows or Grimoire is a book of spells, enchantments, and rituals. Includes Rituals, Spells, and Wicca Ethics

    The Craft Companion: A Witch's Journal

    By Dorothy Morrison, a high priest of Witchcraft.

    NOTE: We circled (in YELLOW and RED), and also enlarged to the side The NKJV symbol.


  • TruthTruth Posts: 421

    @BroRando Are all JW’s so fascinated by witchcraft, or just you?

  • BroRandoBroRando Posts: 496

    @C Mc  "Three distant Divine Beings..."

    Trinitarians claim Three distant Divine Beings in first sentence of Revelation is a fraud. The real scriptures states, "A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him," (Revelation 1:1)

    Notice Jesus Christ was given a revelation by God? Trinitarians claim that Jesus is a made up name because it starts with the letter "J" so they reject getting Bapized in the Name of Jesus Christ. (Acts 2:38)

    "I write you these things so that you may know that you have life everlasting, you who put your faith in the Name of the Son of God" (1 John 5:13)

    They also teach a false baptism. The Catholic Encyclopedia, II, page 263: The baptismal formula was changed from the name of Jesus Christ to the words Father, Son, and Holy Spirit by the Catholic Church in the second century.” (Rev 16:13)

  • C McC Mc Posts: 4,341
    edited December 4

    @Truth, as you said someway earlier, JWs use fear and scare tactics. These things are all part and parcel of a co-dependent relationship. I scare you, and I feel scared. We stay together under the JWs proverbial covers at the Kingdom Hall and spread its dooms message in the streets at people's doors. CM


    PS. They may be some truth in the book mentioned above; I haven't read it. Don't forget the blind hog. Regardless, I am not hooked on a symbol. CM

  • Bill_ColeyBill_Coley Posts: 2,583

    @C Mc posted:

    PS. Oh, say, @Bill_Coley, in Revelation, the Trinity, can you see?

    No, I can't.

  • TruthTruth Posts: 421

    “Even a blind hog can find an acorn every now and then”

    That one?

    Is they’re such a thing as a proverbial hog that stumbles all over acorns but refuses to eat?

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