Politics
As a follow up on the recent discussion on the Logos forum:
Apparently not everyone is happy about all the political discussions going on here.
Do we need a new category "Politics"?
There's certainly an overlap with "Current News and Events". Or is Politics a subcategory of Current News and Events?
Comments
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the "Current News and Events" provided for CURRENT matters, not all of which were about "politics", but also about "culture", "society", etc ... various topics that did not relate directly to one of the other categories (with some overlap in "Pop Culture")
A category "politics" would provide for topics to relate to POLITICAL matters, whether current or ancient or any time in between.From your post it seems that the Logos "Christian Discourse" forum is back up and running?
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@Jan said:
As a follow up on the recent discussion on the Logos forum:Apparently not everyone is happy about all the political discussions going on here.
Do we need a new category "Politics"?
There's certainly an overlap with "Current News and Events". Or is Politics a subcategory of Current News and Events?That would be great. Possibly hid behind a link so it isn't in your face as soon as you enter the site.
Thanks for a great site and privilege to share with others.
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@Wolfgang said:
the "Current News and Events" provided for CURRENT matters, not all of which were about "politics", but also about "culture", "society", etc ... various topics that did not relate directly to one of the other categories (with some overlap in "Pop Culture")
A category "politics" would provide for topics to relate to POLITICAL matters, whether current or ancient or any time in between.From your post it seems that the Logos "Christian Discourse" forum is back up and running?
It's still "503 Service Unavailable". http://www.christiandiscourse.com/
Here's the discussion I'm refering to: http://community.logos.com/forums/t/142346.aspxIf I understand it right, it's the "current political discussions" that distract people from the "spiritual topics". Whereas it might be interesting to discuss the politics of the Roman Empire or the French Revolution for example, I don't see it happening (unless I've missed something), and even if it would happen, I doubt that the number of threads would be mushrooming in the same way as the current political discussions do.
@Dave_L said:
There's certainly an overlap with "Current News and Events". Or is Politics a subcategory of Current News and Events?
That would be great. Possibly hid behind a link so it isn't in your face as soon as you enter the site.
So subcategory under "News and Current Events" with the threads not visible in "All Categories"/on the landing page? Is this consensus?
Anyway, I'll investigate whether it's possible to hide a category from "All Categories". If it's not possible, then it would make little sense to continue to have it as part of the changes that would (hopefully) everyone happy.
Thanks for a great site and privilege to share with others.
You're welcome. It doesn't require a lot of my time for maintenance at all.
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@Jan said:
@Dave_L said:
There's certainly an overlap with "Current News and Events". Or is Politics a subcategory of Current News and Events?
That would be great. Possibly hid behind a link so it isn't in your face as soon as you enter the site.
So subcategory under "News and Current Events" with the threads not visible in "All Categories"/on the landing page? Is this consensus?
Anyway, I'll investigate whether it's possible to hide a category from "All Categories". If it's not possible, then it would make little sense to continue to have it as part of the changes that would (hopefully) everyone happy.
Thanks for a great site and privilege to share with others.
You're welcome. It doesn't require a lot of my time for maintenance at all.
Under "News & Current Events seems most logical. But the site is really user friendly as is.
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@Jan said:
If I understand it right, it's the "current political discussions" that distract people from the "spiritual topics".ah ok ... as far as my understanding of the expression "christian discourse" goes, I considered it a place where "Christians" can have a "discourse" on whatever topic or matter with which they may have to do or in which they might be involved in and do it in a manner and conduct which is fitting for a Christian
It seems that others are thinking of "christian discourse" as something else ...more like "discourse" about "spiritual topics related to Christian faith or theology" ?
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@Jan said:
@Dave_L said:
There's certainly an overlap with "Current News and Events". Or is Politics a subcategory of Current News and Events?
That would be great. Possibly hid behind a link so it isn't in your face as soon as you enter the site.
So subcategory under "News and Current Events" with the threads not visible in "All Categories"/on the landing page? Is this consensus?
Anyway, I'll investigate whether it's possible to hide a category from "All Categories". If it's not possible, then it would make little sense to continue to have it as part of the changes that would (hopefully) everyone happy.
Thanks for a great site and privilege to share with others.
You're welcome. It doesn't require a lot of my time for maintenance at all.
Under "News & Current Events seems most logical. Possibly all posts invisible, only the categories visible with highlighting or a fly over or a side panel showing new activity.
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@Jan said:
As a follow up on the recent discussion on the Logos forum:Apparently not everyone is happy about all the political discussions going on here.
Do we need a new category "Politics"?
There's certainly an overlap with "Current News and Events". Or is Politics a subcategory of Current News and Events?Jan,
Thanks for being responsive to the needs of the Users of this forum. I trust that in your, administrative guardianship, you will take steps that will be beneficial to all. Let me hasten to say before you make changes (or lack thereof); please consider making it crystal clear, to all, what's the problem or understanding that needs to be adjusted?- What is a clear definition and etymology of the word "politics?
- Is there anything inherently wrong with the word or its content?
- Do some people have issues with the discussion of politics in general even if its news and a current event, which may include guns in American classrooms?
- Is the problem, the discussion of American Politics, in general, and the Trump Administration in particular, which may include his leadership deficiency, analysis, and other opinions?
- Are we redefining the term current events? If not, it includes everything and politics too. The News is not always nice and sanitized.
- Is this a "backdoor" or "underhanded" way of some to restrict or hide current events in the political world because things are not going their way or to their likings?
- Are the complaints failing to exercise their choice to read posts and establish postings?
- Are the complainers unwilling to accept the obvious reality in current interests in one of the forums over others? Is this a bad thing?
- Even with a separate category of "politics", it's still up to the users to respect it and maintain the purity of posts.
- Do we discuss historical, current, world, US or biblical politics?
- Am I gleaming that complainants apparent agitations that CD is incapable or unwilling for Christians to discuss real-world politics that are affecting their lives currently?
- Are the complainers manifesting a weakness or the inability to discuss politics and simultaneously maintain a Christian perspective?
- Is your contemplation of changes strictly to address cries of the complainants or for a more efficient layout of headings and inclusion of participants?
- Is it possible some of the complainant's political positions may not be mature or concisely defensible?
I concur with Wolfgang's assessment:
@Wolfgang said: "the "Current News and Events" provided for CURRENT matters, not all of which were about "politics", but also about "culture", "society", etc ... various topics that did not relate directly to one of the other categories (with some overlap in "Pop Culture"). A category "politics" would provide for topics to relate to POLITICAL matters, whether current or ancient or any time in between. . ."
We don't need to hide anything, let us users choose what post they want to leave comments. In short, is the complaints real and seasonable or some seek to drive or control, when choices are within their grasp? If I am missing something, I stand to be corrected. I am all for improvement, but not for the strangulation of truth, freedom, and information, even if ugly and unchristian. The real world is where we live and must maintain a connection with Christ, all the same. I remain. CM
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@Jan said:
Do we need a new category "Politics"?In general, I like the idea of having more forum categories. And, if really interesting political conversations (like you mentioned) were started in a such a category I would welcome it or at least I would be around to enjoy listening to the conversations.
However, I doubt that the Politics category would prevent Political type discussions from occurring elsewhere on the forums.
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@Jan said:
As a follow up on the recent discussion on the Logos forum:Apparently not everyone is happy about all the political discussions going on here.
Do we need a new category "Politics"?
There's certainly an overlap with "Current News and Events". Or is Politics a subcategory of Current News and Events?In my view, the political discussions in these forums for the most part have been pointed and sharply partisan - an amplified reflection of the long-established aphorism, "Politics ain't bean-bag."
Some of our political discussions have crossed lines of what I consider to be conversational decorum, so I'm not surprised by Logos forums participant Bill Cook's comment that Christiandiscourse.net has "turned into a wild political foray not a forum for religious discussion."
As to the creation of a separate (sub-)category, I don't think it matters. Yes, such an action would establish a modicum of separation between topics blatantly political and those not, but it wouldn't reduce the incidence of such topics, nor, more importantly, would it likely increase forum participation by those who have yet to contribute. People concerned with the forums' topics have always been free to initiate conversations that in their view were more germane and/or appropriate for the setting. The reality is that hasn't happened in the short life of christiandiscourse.net, and is not likely to happen now.
If a new "politics" (sub-)category is created, my guess is that many, but not all, political discussions will migrate to it - not all, because there is no universal definition of the line between things (organically) political and those not. Hence, I would support the creation of a new (sub-)category, but I would also support the current forum structure. Perhaps of more consequence to the issue here, I encourage forum critics to initiate threads that invite and promote the kind of discussion they believe is appropriate in this setting.
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@Jan said:
As a follow up on the recent discussion on the Logos forum: Apparently not everyone is happy about all the political discussions going on here.On second thought: Let the truth be told, there will always be someone unhappy, somewhere, about something, all the time. I guess you have to determine if it's a chronic complainer and can't help him or herself? Is this individual, an outsider (non-participant) or one within, who has CD best interest at heart or a chronic complainer from within? Does this individual wants to improve the forums' survivability? For the complainer, did he or she, said what they currently like about CD or anything positive? From my view, on a farm, any old mule can kick down a barn. However, it takes planning, skills, and cooperation to build one. A hint to the wise.
Do we need a new category "Politics"?
A "new category "Politics"' will be useful if it helps with order or layout (as mentioned in another post) for a healthy evolvement. On the other hand, if a sub-category is necessary for other subjects to get or will be getting one?
Do you think Politics should be discussed in these forums at all? Are you considering removing current headings altogether? As for "politics", have you considered leaving it out completely; allowing it only when it raises its unpopular-head in other discussions? Do you think there is consensus for this among CD Users?
Since we're in the vein of category/sub-categories, are you considering adding new ones? Have you thought about Health, Comparative Religions (world, etc.) or abortion? I guess the latter would be as unmanageable as politics? If you perceive the areas mentioned above, already having means to manifest themselves; then, so be it. CM
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When I set up the forum a few months back, the general opinion seemed to be that "fewer categories" is better than "more categories", and the arguments presented for "fewer categories" were very sound, and convinced me of that setup.
Now there has been organic growth of political threads. It is easily understandable that there's desire to discuss politics with new food for discussion coming up from the @realDonaldTrump Twitter account almost daily.
A new Politics category would therefore be a reation to a forum dynamic that's already happening. However, just creating the category would not address the complainers' concerns, since the discussions would ot be "hidden".
And I do concur with C_M that we don't want to hide anything, at least I hope that that's true for the majority here.
I've just had an idea. How about posting some daily "discussion starters" in "News and Current Events" that are less centered on politics? Even if it doesn't reduce the amount of political discussion, it would certainly make a difference in appearance.
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@Jan said:
When I set up the forum a few months back, the general opinion seemed to be that "fewer categories" is better than "more categories", and the arguments presented for "fewer categories" were very sound, and convinced me of that setup.Now there has been organic growth of political threads. It is easily understandable that there's desire to discuss politics with new food for discussion coming up from the @realDonaldTrump Twitter account almost daily.
A new Politics category would therefore be a reation to a forum dynamic that's already happening. However, just creating the category would not address the complainers' concerns, since the discussions would ot be "hidden".
And I do concur with C_M that we don't want to hide anything, at least I hope that that's true for the majority here.
I've just had an idea. How about posting some daily "discussion starters" in "News and Current Events" that are less centered on politics? Even if it doesn't reduce the amount of political discussion, it would certainly make a difference in appearance.
The proverbial elephant in the room of this issue, Jan, is the fact that only a few people regularly contribute to these forums. At least one former participant in a post made clear his reasons for leaving, and another seemed to hint at his departure, but in the main, only a small group participates. In addition to circumventing political controversies, it seems to me, any changes to the forum structure need also to address the lack of participation.
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@Jan said:
Apparently not everyone is happy about all the political discussions going on here.I wonder if those who are unhappy are even participants on this forum?
Or are they participants of some other forum who go by second hand information?
Perhaps they would like a forum strictly on Bible text matters? or what they call "spiritual" matters?If one wants to have a forum discussing only certain matters/topics ("categories"), then it simply needs to be made clear that the forum is solely for such topics and any posts deviating into other fields (such as "politics") would simply be deleted by a moderator.
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@Jan said:
When I set up the forum a few months back, the general opinion seemed to be that "fewer categories" is better than "more categories", and the arguments presented for "fewer categories" were very sound, and convinced me of that setup.I'm encouraged to know that you were opened to the opinions of others in the formation of the original category of CD-II. This gives a window into your desire for inclusion and the effective functionality of these forums. Thanks once again, for your sensitivity and skills for the benefit of all (participants and readers).
Now there has been organic growth of political threads.
As it was for politics, there will be other topics and subjects.
It is easily understandable that there's desire to discuss politics with new food for discussion coming up from the @realDonaldTrump Twitter account almost daily.
If this is the case one just need to view your "Fox News Channel" daily. For those who are not of Mr. Trump's Party would be like drinking from "broken cisterns." If the individual chooses to quote from "the @realDonaldTrump Twitter account" is one thing, but to feature it as a daily standard, it would not only be extremely biased, but it will invite a greater flow of comments and increased traffic around US Politics. Like a rose vine attached to a trellis, let the CD Users, naturally, choose its resources, when it comes to relating to this unorthodox US President.
A new Politics category would therefore be a reation to a forum dynamic that's already happening. However, just creating the category would not address the complainers' concerns, since the discussions would ot be "hidden".
I concur.
I've just had an idea. How about posting some daily "discussion starters" in "News and Current Events" that are less centered on politics?
It's good that you had an idea for others to post "some daily "discussion starters" in "News and Current Events that are less centered on politics'", which is not new, but a privilege all CD Users have available NOW.
Humans don't like change. However, when they do make changes, it's slow and on their timetable. The solution to the apparent current problems is in understanding the word politics and what it entails, the will and cooperation of the current CD Users. In addition, a deeper plumbing of biblical passages and concepts, and the infusion of new users in CD, preferably women could prove to be refreshing. Above all, let's accept the fact that although this is Christian Discourse, there seems to be a natural trend and interests toward "News and Current Events" that are MORE centered on politics'".
Since coming on board (CD-II), I have sought to be broad, sober, factual, with some opinions, varied in comments and creative in my OP Threads. I know I can't say enough to please all, but enough, that I may reach some.
Even if it doesn't reduce the amount of political discussion, it would certainly make a difference in appearance.
Appearance or REALITY, what is the goal? I don't get it. One has the category list, tag indicators and recent posts (time/date), and below access to past posts. It appears someone has other issues or an agenda beyond politics. This is like standing in the grocery aisle of potato chips and complaining that the store seems to sell only potato chips. I strongly suggest to those who are inclined to complain is to move around the forums. They would find great variety and good things. If one doesn't find what he or she wants, equal privilege is given to all; to create, a new thread. One can "lead a horse to the water, but you can't make him drink." Does CD really have a problem or maybe she is being slimed by "fake news" of too much politics?
Jan, maybe you can commission someone or do a makeover of the introductory thread on how to view, used, and understand the new CD-II. As I see it, Christian Discourse's real problems are threefold:
__ 1. More users (younger and women).
__ 2. Greater appreciation of what exists.
__ 3. My personal observations for a future post (if interested).There, you have it, in my opinion (a first cousin to truth).
CM -
@Jan said:
As a follow up on the recent discussion on the Logos forum:Apparently not everyone is happy about all the political discussions going on here.
Jan, nothing is broken. Some people just need to fix their attitude and accept others thoughts and interests. Given the hard work and hours to set up and maintain these forms, former users to complain in light of the opinions, freedom, and opportunities to participate is nothing short of lack of appreciation and insulting.
Hey, be encouraged. You have done well and is most appreciated. CM
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@Bill_Coley said:
@Jan said:
When I set up the forum a few months back, the general opinion seemed to be that "fewer categories" is better than "more categories", and the arguments presented for "fewer categories" were very sound, and convinced me of that setup.Now there has been organic growth of political threads. It is easily understandable that there's desire to discuss politics with new food for discussion coming up from the @realDonaldTrump Twitter account almost daily.
A new Politics category would therefore be a reation to a forum dynamic that's already happening. However, just creating the category would not address the complainers' concerns, since the discussions would ot be "hidden".
And I do concur with C_M that we don't want to hide anything, at least I hope that that's true for the majority here.
I've just had an idea. How about posting some daily "discussion starters" in "News and Current Events" that are less centered on politics? Even if it doesn't reduce the amount of political discussion, it would certainly make a difference in appearance.
The proverbial elephant in the room of this issue, Jan, is the fact that only a few people regularly contribute to these forums. At least one former participant in a post made clear his reasons for leaving, and another seemed to hint at his departure, but in the main, only a small group participates. In addition to circumventing political controversies, it seems to me, any changes to the forum structure need also to address the lack of participation.
Is that what that cesspool post is about? What happened?
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@reformed said:
Is that what that cesspool post is about? What happened?Hi, reformed. Welcome to the forums.
I don't know which post you're referring to via the adjective "cesspool." Could you be more specific? If you don't want to identify the post out of consideration for the person(s) who created it, perhaps you could PM me, and we could engage on the matter off the public record.
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@Bill_Coley said:
@reformed said:
Is that what that cesspool post is about? What happened?Hi, reformed. Welcome to the forums.
I don't know which post you're referring to via the adjective "cesspool." Could you be more specific? If you don't want to identify the post out of consideration for the person(s) who created it, perhaps you could PM me, and we could engage on the matter off the public record.
There is a post called "A Cesspool of Heresy false teachers and radicals"
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All right. I'll put more effort into fixing the "sign up with Facebook" link then, and once it's working, reach out to the various Logos user groups on FB to get new forum members on board. Getting mor people to participate is indeed more important than minor changes in category hierarchy.
(I'll still post a discussion starter when I see some interesting Christian News item.)
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Thanks, Jan, for your efforts. CM
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