Finished ...

I have notified the admin Jan about how I can remove my account from the CD forums, since I did not find a place in profiles, etc. I am awaiting his reply and shall then be gone.

Cheers,

Wolfgang

Comments

  • TruthTruth Posts: 421
    edited November 23

    I am sorry @Wolfgang . I have thought several times I might also leave and probably will soon. I have noticed that a LOT of people have a come for a brief time and then left.

    Personally, I find this place an interesting study in psychology of how humans lack self-discipline and must be governed--or want to be governed. Left to themselves, it appears, a small handful of psychopaths/evil minds will eventually bully everyone else away.

    I can't help but wonder if some people here are really great people in real life, but given anonymity and deep personal tensions, their worst side emerges here. What if people here say what they do because they are confused and afraid (@BroRando), or wounded and hurting (@Bill_Coley), and stay here because they really do need help?

    Every now and then a well-meaning soul happens by hoping to redeem the mess, with no apparent benefit.

    I suppose the experiment will continue and the participants will maintain enough physical space not to do each other bodily harm.

    I wonder how rats would do in this same environment.

  • C McC Mc Posts: 4,341

    Bro. @Wolfgang,

    You don't have to clean out your drawer. Take a break for about 30 days; just read posts and see how you feel afterward. No one is pushing you out. I would admit CD is plastered with whole studies from  @BroRando  JWs Website. CM

  • TruthTruth Posts: 421

    I would admit CD is plastered with whole studies from  @BroRando  JWs Website. CM

    Like the back of a horse stall.

     Take a break for about 30 days;

    Won't take that long. He is thoroughly addicted.

  • JanJan Posts: 291

    Can we please stop name-calling and personal attacks like "psychopaths/evil minds". Stay on topic. Criticize ideas. Don't criticize people.

    Thank you!

  • TruthTruth Posts: 421
    edited November 29

    Tensions run high. Anonymity of the internet provides a platform to play out our worst sides.

    Covid storms, politics rage, everyone here has a religious bent of some kind and because we feel strongly about religious beliefs, they become the footholds by which we push against each other. I would have said that no one is offended. We are just a handful of men elbowing, whacking, practical joking with a bit of life-or-death religion at the root of the matter. Men play high-risk games. Heaven or Hell. Salvation or damnation. Most don't take each other's barbs seriously. Most get weary of the toxic bickering, and leave. All but a small core group have done that.

    A forum like this becomes a "safe" place for testosterone driven men to interact as they flush out all that worries them. Better to snarl, slash, belittle, and insult others online than in real life. But online is real life hidden with threats made from behind a computer screen--is it a real life for cowards?

    For some, worries may be politics, for others, Covid, for yet others, science doubts, for yet others, religious unknowns. Out the worry gushes in thread after thread. People call each other names and judge each other worthy of damnation. Some even insinuate physical violence.

    Is such verbal violence a catharsis as some would say? Or does it pave the way to a more violent individuals and society as Dr. Suzette Elgin would say? What does the Bible say?


    Pleasant words are as an honeycomb, sweet to the soul, and health to the bones. Prov 16:25

  • Bill_ColeyBill_Coley Posts: 2,583


    @Truth posted:

    Tensions run high. Anonymity of the internet provides a platform to play out our worst sides.

    This is the second post in which you've ascribed to "anonymity" some level of responsibility for the expression of posters' "worst sides" in these forums (the first being THIS POST). Prompts me to ask, whose identity is more cloaked in anonymity? A poster whose forum ID is "Bill_Coley," whose avatar is a photo of himself and whose ministry, congregation, and sermons and other writings are available on his church's website, a site to which he has provided multiple links through the years? Or a poster whose forum ID is "Truth," whose original avatar looked like a character from the Grand Theft Auto video game franchise?

    Your post reads to me like an apology whose spotlight you chose to deflect from yourself by pluralizing its subjects....

    • "...a platform to play out our worst sides"
    • everyone here has a religious bent of some kind and because we feel strongly about religious beliefs"
    • "We are just a handful of men elbowing, whacking, practical joking..."
    • "A forum like this becomes a "safe" place for testosterone driven men"
    • "People call each other names and judge each other worthy of damnation. Some even insinuate physical violence"

    If you want to apologize for the expression of YOUR "worst side" in these forums since your arrival, or for the "elbowing" and "whacking" YOU'VE done in YOUR posts, or for the name-calling and judgmental spirit of YOUR posts, please proceed. The rest of us - individually, not corporately - will make those choices for ourselves.


    p.s. And if you want/need examples of the "elbowing" and "whacking" you've accomplished through your forum posts, just ask. I think you've created an ample archive.

  • TruthTruth Posts: 421
    edited November 30

    @Bill_Coley

    There is a kind of person who behaves awfully, has no shame, but should. Think gay pride. Or some forum posters.

    Most people have enough social acumen not to behave badly and also splatter their name and face in public; but not all. A forum like this is a magnet for that kind who do not.

    And then, glancing back through some older posts, it seems that "Bill Coley" may have a plethora of disposable aliases. You don't come across as someone who wouldn't.

    Note: You are quite mistaken: I was not asking for you to apologize. Do what you wish with any guilt you may have--you owe me nothing but to love one another. Is love for me something you can offer?

    Further, I have little objection to a little good-intentioned male jostling. I find it amusing in moderation, and sometimes iron sharpens iron. If anyone tires of what a donkey blasts all over the stall walls, then stop feeding it oats.

    Post edited by Truth on
  • Bill_ColeyBill_Coley Posts: 2,583


    @Truth posted:

    There is a kind of person who behaves awfully, has no shame, but should. Think gay pride. Or some forum posters.

    There are all kinds of people, some of whom are forum posters.


    Most people have enough social acumen not to behave badly and also splatter their name and face in public; but not all. A forum like this is a magnet for that kind who do not.

    In the two posts to which I drew attention in my previous post - THIS ONE and THIS ONE - you expressed concern about the negative effects of "anonymity" on forum posters, in the latter writing, "Anonymity of the internet provides a platform to play out our worst sides," and in the former writing, "I can't help but wonder if some people here are really great people in real life, but given anonymity and deep personal tensions, their worst side emerges here." Because the meaning of this new advisory about publicly splattered names and faces isn't clear to me, I assume that said meaning doesn't countermand the clear meaning of your previous cautions about anonymity. Nor does your latest advisory challenge the obvious fact that your ID is more cloaked in anonymity than mine, and hence, I assume, in your view makes you more susceptible to the negative effects you attached to anonymity.


    And then, glancing back through some older posts, it seems that "Bill Coley" may have a plethora of disposable aliases. You don't come across as someone who wouldn't.

    I "don't come across as someone who wouldn't have "a plethora of disposable aliases." Let's analyze: Since a NEGATIVE times a NEGATIVE = a POSITIVE, your sentence actually means I come across as someone who WOULD have a plethora of disposable aliases! Of course, if you wanted to be positive about this rather than negative, you could have just said so instead of using the double negative, but that's nit-picking. But on the plus side, who knew math would come in handy in an online Christian forum?!

    No, I don't have and have never had any CD aliases, "disposable," "recyclable," "refillable," or otherwise.


    Note: You are quite mistaken: I was not asking for you to apologize. Do what you wish with any guilt you may have--you owe me nothing but to love one another. Is love for me something you can offer?

    I didn't think you were asking me to apologize. If anything, I thought you were trying to apologize for the "elbowing-," "whacking-," name-calling-, and judgmental posts you realize you have created in these forums. But instead of apologizing for those posts, you tried to explain them, and included the rest of us in your explanation. My point was to ask you to speak for yourself, not the rest us, when it comes to the influences and origins of your/our posts.

    Can I offer you love? Yes. The love of a brother in Christ.

  • C McC Mc Posts: 4,341

    Brethren,

    Do you think the most recent posts in a thread of a brother contemplating leaving CD are helpful? CM

  • TruthTruth Posts: 421
    edited November 30

    Funny you should ask. Another forum poster tipped me off about another site which does no longer exists. Wayback, however, reveals much about this @Bill_Coley and how he buffalos, bullies, smokes, distorts what people say (see example above), distracts, --all whenever he, like @BroRando will not or cannot answer a simple question. Some real "Coley" out there actually does seem to be the pastor of a liberal organization called "church." That Coley even seems to be a preacher and involved in community affairs, dealing with everything from gay pride and politics to veterans. Not much about God other than refuting Jesus.

    Based on the 30 minutes or so I invested looking back, this may or not be an impersonation. How could anyone really know? I find similarities and differences. I had hoped some verifiable "church" members from his organization might come forward, but of course none have.

    @C Mc Yes, all this is quite relevant to why people leave.


    @Bill_Coley Thanks for the love, Bill. I love you too. Have you visited the Blessings thread?

    Post edited by Truth on
  • Wayback, however, reveals much about this @Bill_Coley and how he buffalos, bullies, smokes, distorts what people say

    Anonymous coward bully, speaking about himself again ... buffalo, bullies, smokes, distorts ... that's the @Truth hypocrite in full bloom!

  • Throw me out ... I do not need this @Truth bully's destructive poison. Unfortunately, he was permitted and managed in a few weeks to destroy this forum.

  • Bill_ColeyBill_Coley Posts: 2,583


    @Truth posted:

    Funny you should ask. Another forum poster tipped me off about another site which does no longer exists. Wayback, however, reveals much about this @Bill_Coley and how he buffalos, bullies, smokes, distorts what people say (see example above), distracts, --all whenever he, like @BroRando will not or cannot answer a simple question. Some real "Coley" out there actually does seem to be the pastor of a liberal organization called "church." That Coley even seems to be a preacher and involved in community affairs, dealing with everything from gay pride and politics to veterans. Not much about God other than refuting Jesus.

    Based on the 30 minutes or so I invested looking back, this may or not be an impersonation. How could anyone really know? I find similarities and differences. I had hoped some verifiable "church" members from his organization might come forward, but of course none have.

    @C Mc Yes, all this is quite relevant to why people leave.

    The insinuations of this post and the CD forums' history to which they sadly point compel me not to respond directly in this thread. Because of the seriousness with which I take these insinuations, I have submitted the matter to @Jan, the founder and moderator of the forums. In a flag of @Truth 's post, I documented my concerns and referenced the relevant history with links to multiple posts created by multiple posters. I/We can now wait for @Jan's response.

    The personal attacks contained in @Truth's post - "how he buffalos, bullies, smokes, distorts what people say (see example above), distracts, --all whenever he, like @BroRando will not or cannot answer a simple question" - are not part of my flag submission, so I will comment briefly on them:

    1. My posts speak for themselves. Read them and ask whether in my responses to others I respond directly or instead distract from the issues raised. And then ask whether my posts buffalo, bully, smoke, or distort... anything.
    2. I AM the pastor of a local church: First Christian Church of East Moline, Illinois, in the U.S. We have A WEBSITE at which you can review our ministries, read my writings, and listen to the last 100 or so of my sermons. It's only by God's grace and design, but we DO have a ministry to veterans called "Helmets of Hope," which over the last six years minus one week has provided more than 23,000 essential household supply items (cleaners, rags, laundry- and paper products, et al) to vets facing some form of housing crisis. So yes, both I and the church I have served for 36+ years exist.
    3. Neither I nor the congregation I serve "refutes" Jesus. We confess him as the Christ, God's chosen one, our Lord and Savior.
    4. The personal attacks in @Truth's post, false and baseless though they are, violate the "criticize ideas, not people" expectation of these forums.

    Thanks for enduring this extension of a troubling exchange of posts. May we all pray for better days and healthier exchanges in the CD forums.

    Blessings,

    Bill Coley

  • TruthTruth Posts: 421

    @Wolfgang

    I am truly sorry you feel that way. I almost get the feeling you don’t like me. I realize that a lot of bad theology has been demolished. That probably feels upsetting. Stuck it out and we may come out the other side best friends. I will say that I kind of like many things about you. Can you find it in your heart to live me like Bill does?

  • TruthTruth Posts: 421

    Sorry for the typos. I shouldn’t type while jogging.

  • TruthTruth Posts: 421
    edited December 1

    @Bill_Coley - Whoa! I missed your post above.

    It's good to know who you are and where you stand.

    Your questioned history here and elsewhere exists for a reason. I am more interested in your thinking than your history, and most interested of all in your curious present behavior, though I suppose we should attempt to stay on topic here.

    I doubt @Wolfgang is going anywhere. I doubt your bully and scare tactics will change. I doubt anyone here cares that much, but I find it relevant in what makes a forum work. Seems to me there has never been warm cozy group here. Perhaps @BroRando makes it warmer because his style and theology better matches your own.

    Maybe it is my skin color or personality that you dislike. I don't care much.

    My challenge to you is to join in the Blessing Thread which I started. There you will find my heart. That is what will bring more people to this forum and keep them here.

    Otherwise, you will bully off or bore to death anyone whose skin or personality or theology you can't stand and remain the mad, feuding handful this forum has become.

    ----

    “He drew a circle that shut me out-

    Heretic, rebel, a thing to flout.

    But love and I had the wit to win:

    We drew a circle and took him In!”


    ― Edwin Markham

    Post edited by Truth on
  • I doubt @Wolfgang is going anywhere.

    I am leaving .... no more pearls before someone like you ... life is somewhere else to be found.

    I doubt your bully and scare tactics will change.

    Yours obviously won't.

  • C McC Mc Posts: 4,341

    @Wolfgang,

    Do we have an understanding you would at least hold on to the end of the year and possibly even change your mind completely? CM

  • Do we have an understanding you would at least hold on to the end of the year and possibly even change your mind completely? CM

    No, we don't. I will be gone, once the account has been canceled.

  • TruthTruth Posts: 421

    @Wolfgang

    After re-reading my post above, my statement above appeared to describe you as a bully. I was referring to how other forum users referred to Bill. I was NOT referring to you. I apologize. I do not think you are at all a bully.

    I hope you don’t go. I hope you can learn who I really am and think differently of me. I appreciate and respect you.

    I am aware that you do not believe in the divinity of Christ To me that is extremely important if we don’t understand theological terms well may or may not matter in God’s eyes so much as what we do with what we know he makes all the judgment calls. My heart is only that you know the riches found in knowing God well.

    other than that difference, we have much in common. Well, I believe the earth is round, not flat. But I don’t care and can ignore that

    Please stay.

  • I hope you don’t go. I hope you can learn who I really am and think differently of me. I appreciate and respect you

    Too little, too late ... already discerned what or who you "really" are, your past actions have already shown it! Your "words" now mean very little and only confirm your hypocrisy.

  • TruthTruth Posts: 421
    edited December 1

    i will respect you either way. I will likely quit too. Almost have 3-4 times.

    if my leaving means you can stay, would that make a difference to you? You were here first…


    I probably am a hypocrite. Worse than you know. I’m also 80% John Wayne and 10% Mr Rogers. And 10% unknown. I can be blustery but also deeply caring. Maybe you can help me become more like Jesus. And I really don’t care about skin color at all.

  • C McC Mc Posts: 4,341
    edited December 1

    @Truth said to @Bill_Coley:

    Maybe it is my skin color or personality that you dislike. I don't care much.

    • What does one's "skin color have to do with anything?
    • What in these forums did Bill say to cause you to conclude such?
    • @Truth, are you being needlessly overly sensitive? I don't know your skin color. Has @Bill_Coley seen your natural face or skin color? If a person doesn't "care much" about you, could it be how you conduct yourself in these forums and not because of skin color?

    @Truth,@Truth could it be, you are wrong on this? Let's start here and now to make it right. Be bigger. CM

  • TruthTruth Posts: 421
    edited December 1

    Bill has been kind and sensitive. I don’t feel any condescension from him or you. If anything, Bill gets double credit for doing it well.

    Maybe I am sensitive. Try on another skin color for a day and see if you know why.

    My deeper concern was the JW position disrespectful of other races. I was picking up discrimination elsewhere as well.

    Hypersensitivity doesn’t help the matter. You are right.

  • JanJan Posts: 291

    @Wolfgang asked me to delete his account. I'll do that tomorrow, since I'm still busy with other things, and it's getting late already...

  • C McC Mc Posts: 4,341
    edited December 2

    @C Mc said to Bro. @Wolfgang,

    You don't have to clean out your drawer. Take a break for about 30 days; just read posts and see how you feel afterward. No one is pushing you out. I would admit CD is plastered with whole studies from  @BroRando  JWs Website. CM

    @C Mc asked @Wolfgang

    Do we have an understanding you would at least hold on to the end of the year and possibly even change your mind completely?

    @Wolfgang replied"

    No, we don't. I will be gone once the account has been canceled.


    @Wolfgang,

    The Chairman has given us the official heads up of your imminent departure. This is probably the last post you will receive before the lights go out. It would have been nice if you could have remained and become the change you wanted to see in others. Your stated reasons for leaving are less than ideal. I want you to be sure you're not playing into the hands of those who don't have CD's best interest at heart. However, "a man has to do what a man has to do."

    I will miss your posts on the updates with the vaccine craze in America and around the world. I am super beeindruckt! Go in peace and be a blessing to others. I pray you will have another forum to join. If it is truly Christian, you may not be received very well based on many of your views on Christ and your approach to Scripture.

    I believe the doors of CD remain open if you want to come back as yourself (or as an alias?). You know, the last part of the sentence above was made in jest. There are so many topics to address. There are several threads started with no comments or development. We will do what we can to allow the Bible to speak freely. Fellow posters will miss you for various reasons, and you likewise us. Whether for the good or for the ill, times and people change.

    Who knows, I may visit your beloved Germany one day. Maybe we can have a cup of herbal tea since I don't drink beer. Until then, keep studying!

    I sincerely say to you, citizen Mr. Wolfgang... Tschüss! or

    CM

  • Bill_ColeyBill_Coley Posts: 2,583

    @Wolfgang posted:

    Too little, too late ... already discerned what or who you "really" are, your past actions have already shown it! Your "words" now mean very little and only confirm your hypocrisy.

    I respect and understand your frustration and impatience with the conduct of the poster to whom you referred in the quoted post, Wolfgang, but I'm annoyed no end that such anonymous and egregious misconduct will prompt your departure from these forums. I hope you will find the desire - or perhaps the changed CD poster lineup - to rejoin us.

    Blessings,

    Bill

  • TruthTruth Posts: 421

    @Bill_Coley Your new picture is much nicer. You no longer look like a thug :)

    Let's see if your posts match the new look of Bill. Perhaps then forum contributors will be more inclined to stay.

  • C McC Mc Posts: 4,341

    @Truth,

    Alright, my friend. "Enough is enough, and too much is good for nothing." There are lots of threads and topics that need substance. Let's complete them. CM

  • TruthTruth Posts: 421
    edited December 2

    I hope you write a book of quips and sayings. I’d buy it.

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